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RE: What proof would it take for me to believe in god?
September 19, 2014 at 5:06 pm
(This post was last modified: September 19, 2014 at 5:15 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You know why that little narrative works? Because it's impossible for the blind to see. No amount of explaining sight will ever bring the blind closer to being able to see. It has nothing to do with what you're looking at, it has nothing to do with any enhanced conceptual framework that you possess and that they do not. They simply cannot see, they suffer no lack of comprehension (and can,....and do build spatial "maps" of objects upon other metrics up to and including a "sighted" persons description of them). Full stop. So...unless you're claiming to have senses or superpowers that others do not.....
References to blindness and the implication that one is in the "sighted" position concerning their articles of faith or experienced "revelations" are tired - they need to be given a rest.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What proof would it take for me to believe in god?
September 19, 2014 at 5:20 pm
(This post was last modified: September 19, 2014 at 5:24 pm by Aoi Magi.)
There are several colors and things we can't see or feel with any other sense, but we know they are there because we can observe their effects, or deduce their presence from other effects in the universe. Simply saying you understand something yet cannot even begin to try to explain to another person of more or less equal intelligence, and with equal sensory capabilities is being arrogant and ignorant.
Also coming back to colors, green, for those who can see it, is green, and red is red, however this supernatural entity of yours has a thousand different explanations and understandings which sometimes even contradicts each other. Why would you say your experience and what you understood from it is correct? If I suddenly see a new color with my naked eyes which nobody else can see, I would consider visiting a doctor to get my vision and head analyzed, and then I would ask other peers to help come up with an explanation, instead of concluding there is a special color existing just for me in this universe.
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RE: What proof would it take for me to believe in god?
September 19, 2014 at 5:29 pm
For me, restoring the leg of an amputee magically and without any natural processes that we know of would not be convincing by itself, but it would be something worth considering.
Luke: You don't believe in the Force, do you?
Han Solo: Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen *anything* to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. 'Cause no mystical energy field controls *my* destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.
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RE: What proof would it take for me to believe in god?
September 19, 2014 at 9:31 pm
(September 19, 2014 at 3:47 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Actually, that’s not a good starting place since such a conception of God is as a thing among and apart from other things.
The conception of anything among and apart from other things is how we always identify and define it. Why should your god be treated as a special case?
(September 19, 2014 at 3:47 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: A better starting point is where all monotheistic traditions agree; God in His fullness is ineffable.
This is a joke, right? The monotheistic traditions agree that their god cannot be expressed in words and then they can't stop talking about him or writing about him? And while we are at it, you want me to start examining the god claim by assuming its definition as "something that cannot be expressed in words"? And why the hell would I start with the definition the Abrahamic faiths started with?
(September 19, 2014 at 3:47 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Just as God is not a thing among other things as mentioned above, knowledge of God is not some piece of information that you can store alongside other facts. It is like knowing oneself as a knower, a kind of gnosis that is immediate and intimate. People gain this type of knowledge about God from either general or special revelation or both.
Blah, blah, blah.....
Is your god conscious - as in is he capable of perceiving the universe?
Does your god have agency - as in is he capable of acting upon the universe?
Is he immaterial - as in is his existence independent from anything within the material world?
If the answer is yes to all of these, then he fits my definition and we can start the examination. Not so in-fucking-effable, after all.
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RE: What proof would it take for me to believe in god?
September 20, 2014 at 5:44 pm
God would give me all of his powers without retaining any for himself.
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RE: What proof would it take for me to believe in god?
October 16, 2015 at 8:30 pm
(September 16, 2014 at 7:48 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Here's my test.
Some guy shows up and claims he's god. I invite him to follow me into a nursing home of my choice. I will then select a 90-ish something female alzheimer's patient sitting in a wheelchair and drooling into a cup. I will hold on to both her shoulders and 'god' will have to rejuvenate her into a 20 year old hottie who specializes in blow jobs without touching her.
Any guy who can do that deserves to be worshiped.
Even if they are not a god.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: What proof would it take for me to believe in god?
October 17, 2015 at 2:08 am
(October 16, 2015 at 8:30 pm)IATIA Wrote: (September 16, 2014 at 7:48 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Here's my test.
Some guy shows up and claims he's god. I invite him to follow me into a nursing home of my choice. I will then select a 90-ish something female alzheimer's patient sitting in a wheelchair and drooling into a cup. I will hold on to both her shoulders and 'god' will have to rejuvenate her into a 20 year old hottie who specializes in blow jobs without touching her.
Any guy who can do that deserves to be worshiped.
Even if they are not a god.
Holy you mustce run a salvage operation to find and necropost this.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: What proof would it take for me to believe in god?
October 17, 2015 at 10:46 am
Actually, Min posted the link in an earlier response in a different thread. I should have just copied and pasted, but I was on my phone and it was easier this way.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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