This Is Not My Allah - Press Conference

[mralstoner]

[Aoi Magi]

But then, I don't see how it's possible to reform this barbaric religion at all.

OT -> NT

[mralstoner]

But then, I don't see how it's possible to reform this barbaric religion at all.

OT -> NT

Yeah, good luck with that. The language of the Koran is repeatedly to "fight the unbelievers wherever you find them" i.e. carte blanche, timeless marching orders. The language of the Old Testament (so I've heard) is directed as specific people i.e. Hittite, Girgashite, Amorite, Canaanite, Perizzite, Hivite, or Jebusite. So, that made it possible for a Jesus to come along with "love thy neighbour" and instantly relegate the OT into time-specific irrelevancy (generally speaking).

Actually, come to think of it, Robert Spencer said Jews have also generally not taken that OT violence as timeless marching orders.

No such luck with Islam. Mohammed is supposed to be the last prophet. That's it. Ain't no Jesus coming to reform Islam. Apples and oranges. That's why reform of Islam is seemingly impossible.

Mohammed is held up in the Koran to be the perfect role model "a beautiful pattern of conduct". When you look at the life of Mohammed, it's the same as ISIS, head-chop here, rape there, etc. Mohammed is the "perfect" and final prophet. If you speak a bad word about Mohammed, it's off with your head. So, there's no scope for a post-Mohammed pacifier to come along. None.

[Aoi Magi]

The OT also contains enough violence towards non-believers irrespective of who they are. Religions are born from society, so put enough pressure on it and it will reform.

[mralstoner]

The OT also contains enough violence towards non-believers irrespective of who they are. Religions are born from society, so put enough pressure on it and it will reform.

So go ahead and quote the OT verses that command Jews to generally fight non-believers, as opposed to fighting specific people. There's a tonne in the Koran. I haven't seen any such open-ended verses in the OT that command fighting any-and-all non-believers.

[Cato]

So, there's no serious counter-arguments here, there's nothing addressing the barbaric head-chopping, raping, torturing, enslaving example of the prophet Mohammed himself.

I think you might be misunderstanding what's going on here. Serious arguments against the atrocities you listed are readily available. The fact is that they are ignored; not that they are unknown or misunderstood.

I seriously doubt that formally presented arguments against the listed atrocities will result in Islamist leadership saying, "You know boys, the kafirs are on to something here. It's time to put away your dicks and lay down the machetes."

[Aoi Magi]

The OT also contains enough violence towards non-believers irrespective of who they are. Religions are born from society, so put enough pressure on it and it will reform.

So go ahead and quote the OT verses that command Jews to generally fight non-believers, as opposed to fighting specific people. There's a tonne in the Koran. I haven't seen any such open-ended verses in the OT that command fighting any-and-all non-believers.

You missed the point, NT is not exactly an extension of OT, cause JC had to flat out contradict the OT at places to make room for NT. Even with the NT in place, how many different churches with different interpretations of the same text do you think exists?

I must say I am not too familiar with the Quran, but religious texts always maintain a healthy dose of loopholes to weasel out of any situation. I am pretty sure they will have a loophole somewhere to overwrite or reinterpret the text when it suits their needs.

As for an example of violence:

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)

there are probably more, but this should make the point clear.

[DramaQueen]

First step: get rid of the hadiths

[vorlon13]

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is a commandment to slay all women of faiths other than OT Judaism.

[Minimalist]