Feminism and Gaming

[Zack]

How do DDs make your muscle memory any more or less than if if you were beefcake. Some games, sure you stick out, if you are male and bigger. Still don't see how this affects a female gamers play? I like playing female characters and I am a male. Come on...X is a shitty player because they have big tits/bulging cock? I don't care what your graphic looks like. All that matters is whether or not you can play.

Agree with that for sure Alice "no weight customization. I also dislike the "hunky male mage" thing humans have going on. Means developer doesn't have to force their armor textures to scale... but WoW's not really a good example as far as customization options go."


Edit: I'm not trying to be a dick. Just think video game skill (especial pvp) = the time put into it,not what how characters look like.

[DeistPaladin]

You prefer jerking it? To each his own I suppose, but read this:
10 reasons to stop using porn

Please tell me you were joking with this link. This guy makes all kinds of medical and psychology claims with no footnotes as to his sources. Neither is there any note as to his academic qualifications.

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I've always cringed when I see this sort of thing as "protective" armour:

[Violet]

How do DDs make your muscle memory any more or less than if if you were beefcake. Some games, sure you stick out, if you are male and bigger. Still don't see how this affects a female gamers play? I like playing female characters and I am a male. Come on...X is a shitty player because they have big tits/bulging cock? I don't care what your graphic looks like. All that matters is whether or not you can play.

Skill is not the concern by which avatars are drawn: relatable presentation is. Skill being the only concern, there is little or no need for indicators any prettier than basic geometric shapes (circles, triangles).

Clickability can have a minor impact in higher level content, but indeed: by that time the healers have probably figured out "how to play the game". Until you get to that level of play: many of your healers in dungeons will be keyboard-turning macroless "noobs". Higher impact at those levels.

As for affecting gamer play... I tend to skip out on gear upgrades if they're not of a significant enough level to make up for making me look like a slut Or, when playing high-armor characters, when my own armor looks like deathtrap just waiting for me to run with scissors.

Agree with that for sure Alice Edit: I'm not trying to be a dick. Just think video game skill (especial pvp) = the time put into it,not what how characters look like.

Nobody is arguing that mechanical skill is necessarily impacted by appearance... however, player psychology is heavily impacted by ingame aesthetics. Player psychology affects player immersion, which affects player attention to detail within a game, which affects tactical ability, and sometimes even mechanical skill ("in the zone"). Getting your players to care about winning when they're dissatisfied with the design of the character they're playing is... difficult. Casuals are the biggest market, and they're the most affected by needing something to personally invest in.

Also... video game skill sometimes cannot be improved, no matter the time spent playing. It comes down to many more factors than just tactics and mechanics (which are critical, mind)... but even were it just these: some people are slow; some people are slowing down.

[Losty]

I completely agree with everything here. I wonder if there are not more female gamers simply because there's a lower number of females who are sexually attracted to video game characters.

Male characters are often "sexually attractive" along one of a few archetypes...

The princely character. Observe:

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The boy band. Again:

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The alien. Once more:

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The beefcake Losty has certainly not been waiting for:

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The tsundere:

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The dirty old wife beater:

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And the one who's got it on:

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I'm looking at gay porn right now

Muscle march again? May you never put the game down.

How fitting is it that the beefcake is the only one I find even slightly remotely attractive. Even then it's like...meh I'm just not that in to cartoon dudes.

[DramaQueen]

I don't like the beefcake, too much muscle

[Losty]

I don't like the beefcake, too much muscle

1)no one ever said you had good taste.
2)where can you see any muscle? All I can see is a lot of gear.

[DramaQueen]

I love muscular hairy men but that character was over the top

[John V]

Have you ever actually seen the customization screens for male an female characters? Is their a game in particular? Male/Female Barbs Diablo 3- pre Reaper of Souls, female orcs in WoW from several years ago (haven't played in a bit) What your character looks like is subjective. Once he/she is geared, not much of a difference. I haven't met too many women outraged at their video game caricatures!

My wife and daughter get ticked off about some of the female armor in DDO.

Also note that it's not all about outrage. The body image issue is about a constant bombardment in multiple media.

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The fact that as few men live up to ideal body image as women would suggest the fundamental cause of women being made to feel insecure about their bodies in our society is not the idealized-body-type itself, but the failure to inculcate the appropriate "fuck that" attitude amongst women.

Is it a failure to embrace that attitude, or a general inability to adopt that attitude?

OP gave men a pass for their attitudes toward sex, saying that just how it is, and people who don't like it should get over it.

My main point is that if men get this pass, women should as well.

Or, if you expect women to change their basic tendencies, then you should expect the same of men.

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In real life, women are made to feel insecure about their bodies.

This is fantasy. What she draws is fantasy. We both know the difference between fantasy and real life.

Why are you having trouble grasping the distinction?

Because media images occur in real life. Women are constantly being bombarded with images that subliminally say this is what you should look like, and it can hurt the self esteem of those who don't live up to that standard, which is most of them.

One can play a game without looking at beautiful women.

BINGO! Since it isn't necessary to reinforce these body image stereotypes in games, let's just stop doing it.

And what you keep missing is that fantasy shouldn't contribute to anyone's self-image problems. Know why? Because it's fantasy.

And what you're missing is that it's not your place to tell women what should or should not contribute to their self image problems.

What's there is
Celebacy = What you should do
Marriage = OK, if you can't control yourself, that's second best.

Yes, and? You've already backed well off your initial assertion that sex is only for procreation, so I guess you're making progress.

[DeistPaladin]

Or, if you expect women to change their basic tendencies, then you should expect the same of men.

No one is saying otherwise. I've not asked anything of women in this thread except to advise on what can and can't be changed about men.

Men also have idealized physiques in fantasy, unattainable for about 90% of the male population even with a strict regimen of diet and exorcise (barring the use of illegal muscle-enhancing drugs).





My question (which was a question and not telling women what to think as your straw man asserts) is how might we change society to duplicate male feelings about such idealizations. Men are not bothered by fantasy images of a shirtless Fabio on the cover of fantasy sold to women nor are we bothered by the unrealistic physiques of male heroes in our fantasy game.

Part of the issue is that women are also sold real life images of what they should look like. This is where the distinction between fantasy and real life is important.

If men were marketed products the same way women are, perhaps we might be having a similar discussion about "why can't we have skinny guys on the cover of these romance books" or "why can't Conan be played by a more slight-of-build guy?" Such a discussion would also miss the mark and blame fantasy for a real life problem.

Are you starting to get the distinction yet?

Let me further add that if your solution is that idealized, unrealistic depictions of male physiques in fantasy are just fine but doing the same for women is unacceptable because, you know, the women folk have much more delicate sensibilities and can't handle what we men can handle, this is a double standard and arguably sexist in its own way.

BINGO! Since it isn't necessary to reinforce these body image stereotypes in games, let's just stop doing it.

You do enjoy dictating to others, don't you? First you want to tell women what they can and can't do with their real life bodies and now you want to dictate to me what kind of fantasy female bodies I can look at. I suppose your fantasies are less about sex and more about you being the grand arbiter of the world.

In any event, your entire point is moot. Right now, I play games like Porto Rico, Pandemic and Chess with friends on occasion which have no images at all. And your point is...?

And what you're missing is that it's not your place to tell women what should or should not contribute to their self image problems.

Which I have not done.

Yes, and? You've already backed well off your initial assertion that sex is only for procreation, so I guess you're making progress.

For many Christians it is. You may not agree with them but it's easy to see why with anti-sex messages like this in the Bible. But you have just now acknowledged that I'm right about them so I guess you're making progress.

[abaris]

You prefer jerking it? To each his own I suppose, but read this:
10 reasons to stop using porn

Did you get that from the "Onion" website?