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Feminism and Gaming
#1
Feminism and Gaming
This topic comes up periodically in the discussion of games and other popular entertainment and I thought I would offer my nuanced view:

If the goal of feminism is to establish professional equality for women, removing the glass ceiling, ensuring equal pay, combating stereotypes that women are incapable of certain jobs, promoting equal academic and professional opportunity, etc. then I am a feminist and offer the movement my full support.

If the goal of feminism is to create a safer sexual environment, to promote awareness of the problems of rape, sexual harassment, stalking and other forms of predatory behavior and abuse, to address the problems of domestic violence more effectively, to foster greater education of men on sexual boundaries and appropriate vs. inappropriate ways to woo, court and seduce, and to make it clear that women are not only (key word) sexual objects, then I am a feminist and offer the movement my full support.

If the goal of feminism is to make men not like sex so much, to make us less "visual", to make us not like looking at pictures of young, beautiful scantily clad women, to enforce prudish standards against anything sexy in popular entertainment and to advocate double standards against idealized female body types in fantasy while being perfectly fine with similarly idealized male body types (complete with shoulders thrice the width of their waist, perfect washboard abs and pecs as big as your head) then I'm going to suggest that feminism needs to either come up with a plan to fundamentally rewire the way men's brains are biologically designed or else get over it.

We men like sex. We are visual. We like looking at young, beautiful, scantily clad women. Sorry but that's not ever going to change. Get over it.

That said, you can work within that framework to create a better society. We men will always see women as sex objects but you can educate us so that we don't see you as JUST sex objects. We will always like sex but you can raise us to be aware of and respect sexual boundaries. We will always like sexy female characters but you can write them in stories to have other aspects to their character, including skills, intellect and spirit. Making men feel guilty about normal sexual urges is not healthy for anyone.

Sexy does not mean sexism.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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#2
RE: Feminism and Gaming
Quote: idealized male body types (complete with shoulders thrice the width of their waist, perfect washboard abs and pecs as big as your head)

Can someone post a pic? cause I don't understand what that means
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#3
RE: Feminism and Gaming
(October 24, 2014 at 10:29 am)DramaQueen Wrote:
Quote: idealized male body types (complete with shoulders thrice the width of their waist, perfect washboard abs and pecs as big as your head)

Can someone post a pic? cause I don't understand what that means

Pecs: It's the muscles on the upper chest, just below the shoulders and bordering the arm joints.

[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRCsq7P9s_wiYDO0v65mb2...bBZBidV_zN]

Abs: Stomach area muscles

[Image: 111911-abs-350.jpg]
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
Reply
#4
RE: Feminism and Gaming
How does this apply to gaming?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#5
RE: Feminism and Gaming
(October 24, 2014 at 10:32 am)Faith No More Wrote: How does this apply to gaming?

It's an issue often debated in gaming. Women sometimes find depictions of women in gaming and fantasy to be objectionable. Some of these objections are legitimate and others, I feel, are not. This post explains the distinctions.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
Reply
#6
RE: Feminism and Gaming
Well said deist
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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#7
RE: Feminism and Gaming
(October 24, 2014 at 10:35 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: It's an issue often debated in gaming. Women sometimes find depictions of women in gaming and fantasy to be objectionable. Some of these objections are legitimate and others, I feel, are not. This post explains the distinctions.

I get the general idea of the distinctions you are making between legitimate and non-legitimate complaints, but I'm not exactly sure just how you see these distinctions in the gaming world.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#8
RE: Feminism and Gaming
I haven't received a GameInformer in years. This past August, for my daughters birthday I got her a few games and a subscription. This months issue came (the first in years) and Anita Sarkeesian has an interview in it. I thought that was a trip after seeing her lampooned everywhere on the web.

I find modern-day feminism lacking an encompassing aim for a group targeting equality. I do agree with a lot of it, but I just can't get past the horrible people attached to the loudest voices. That lack of foresight, that presenting yourself in a horrible light will turn people away, is enough for me to pass on joining the cause, let alone ignoring you just based on your behavior. Thankfully, secular humanism and egalitarianism doesn't lack this foresight.
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:

"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."

For context, this is the previous verse:

"Hi Jesus" -robvalue
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#9
RE: Feminism and Gaming
My wife has helped me to understand some of the aspects of modern feminism that eluded me before.

For example, with the idealized-body-type issue I mentioned, women are made to feel insecure about their bodies in our society. As a man, I don't mind the idealized-body-type in fantasy. Even when I was young and if I'd worked out constantly, I could never have developed the kind of body that men typically have in epic fantasy, superhero or other settings. That's OK because it's fantasy. I feel no sense that I'm supposed to live up to that standard.

Is there a way we can change things so women feel at ease with their own bodies vs. the fantasy world and not feeling like it's a standard they have to live up to? As in, "yeah, my character has big tits, long lean legs and 2% body fat but who cares, it's just fantasy."?

^ This question is directed particularly to the ladies on this forum.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
Reply
#10
RE: Feminism and Gaming
First let's discuss what makes a videogame sexist - Does Lara Croft having large breasts and being sexy makes the franchise sexist because making up a drop dead gorgeous female character is a way of marketing? Does showing a prostitute like in GTA blowing you and having sex with you make the game sexist?

There are lots of recent and older games that have strong, intelligent female characters. An example I can give randomly is the female fighter from Half Life 2, she was strong and smart, not overly sexually objectified despite being fairly attractive and interesting.

I think a videogame isn't sexist just because it doesn't possess many female secondary NPC's or because it doesn't have a playable female character - But it is if it uses the portrayal of women as sex objects frequently, specially if there is an incentive to it.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

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