How about justice?

[The Grand Nudger]

The fiendish murderer gets off completely free after he blows up innocent people with himself.

Yep, sometimes.

Yet, I know you guys have a strong sense of justice.
It comes out in your posts.
In a world seen thru the lens of atheism, how does ultimate justice have any meaning?

Same way it has any meaning for you. You demand it, I demand it. Why would this (whatever meaning justice may have) be different depending upon where one finds oneself on the religious spectrum?

Doesn't the terrorist's cheating his due reward grate at your thinking?
Doesn't deep down inside you scream that something is wrong?

His "due reward"? A groupon for Denny's? What?

[Chas]

How is that lucid? How is blowing oneself up getting off completely?

He said the fiendish murderer gets off scot free....meaning there is no hell for him to suffer in for eternity....you know, Chas, what the jesus freaks think of as "good times."

And yes...he finally got that right.

He got it right by accident. Even a blind squirrel finds the occasional acorn.

[Minimalist]

No argument here.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Do you have anything to counter what I actually said or do you just like to hear yourself type?

Why would I need to counter it? You saying an uncomfortable fact doesn't mean I somehow have something to defend. Like others have pointed out, if you're using what you said as a means to advance your religion, you're fallaciously appealing to consequences. You went on to say that's not what you were doing so... generally speaking, there isn't much worth countering in your little jab.

But I did find the implications of the fact that you just had to point that out to be interesting. To me, pursuing justice is its own reward, even if we'll never perfectly achieve it, and I'm wondering why it isn't to you. I wonder why you find "you'll never nail this absolutely perfectly" to be a disparaging remark, or a reason to stop trying.

And if you don't find it to be either of those, why on earth did you bring it up at all?

I challenge you to show exactly where in this thread I said anything with which you disagree without putting words in my mouth. You're acting like a douche.

[Esquilax]

I challenge you to show exactly where in this thread I said anything with which you disagree without putting words in my mouth. You're acting like a douche.

I'm sorry, were my last two posts on the subject not clear enough for you?

If you don't think that what you said was an argument for your god, why did you say it? What made you think that was a sentiment that needed to be expressed? The implication in it was that since we can't perfectly achieve justice, we should stop trying, in which case my point stands. Either that, or it was just meant to disparage atheists for not having as feel-good a worldview as you do, in which case... well, that's a little petty, isn't it? This also aids my point, because as I've been saying from the beginning, it's only a legitimate disparagement if you don't see any value in just striving for justice without the promise of complete, one hundred percent success.

If you have a third option in mind, well, I did literally ask you what it was. You can't accuse me of putting words in your mouth, when my last sentence was a request that you put them there instead. The fact that you instead opted to be evasive and aggressive speaks quite loudly, however.

[Ryantology]

The fiendish murderer gets off completely free after he blows up innocent people with himself.
Yet, I know you guys have a strong sense of justice.
It comes out in your posts.
In a world seen thru the lens of atheism, how does ultimate justice have any meaning?
Doesn't the terrorist's cheating his due reward grate at your thinking?
Doesn't deep down inside you scream that something is wrong?

No, because I'm not some animal simpleton who conflates justice and revenge. It is enough for me that a terrorist is prevented from being a terrorist. Killing or torturing that person won't undo what they did, and anything else that would accomplish is of no use to me.

[Jenny A]

The fiendish murderer gets off completely free after he blows up innocent people with himself.
Yet, I know you guys have a strong sense of justice.
It comes out in your posts.
In a world seen thru the lens of atheism, how does ultimate justice have any meaning?
Doesn't the terrorist's cheating his due reward grate at your thinking?
Doesn't deep down inside you scream that something is wrong?

Oh course murders, fiendish or otherwise, ought to be punished. And unfortunately they often aren't caught or punished. That doesn't make justice meaningless anymore than death makes life meaningless. We do the best we can with what there actually is. Pretending that there is some ultimate justice that catches all murders, doesn't change anything. Nor does pretending that death can be avoided.

[Neo-Scholastic]

If you don't think that what you said was an argument for your god, why did you say it?

The statement was simple enough and I'm sorry you do not understand. By all means everyone should strive for justice, but only in a world governed by a just god(s) can people have the assurance that ultimately justice will prevail.

Whatever else you want to project into that sentiment reflects your own insecurities and nothing about my motives.

[FatAndFaithless]

We don't have assurance of justice, and neither do you. That's what makes striving for it more important.

[Esquilax]

If you don't think that what you said was an argument for your god, why did you say it?

The statement was simple enough and I'm sorry you do not understand. By all means everyone should strive for justice, but only in a world governed by a just god(s) can people have the assurance that ultimately justice will prevail.

Whatever else you want to project into that sentiment reflects your own insecurities and nothing about my motives.

Of course the statement was straightforward; that's why literally nobody acted like it was new information. We already knew, and had accepted, that.

What I'm questioning is your motivations for saying so. And I think your reluctance to just let us in on those speaks to your own discomfort at getting called out on your petty grandstanding about how much more appealing your specific brand of religion is.

Because imagine how mean spirited you'd look if you actually had to come out and admit that the only reason you said that was because you wanted to remind the atheists how uncomfortable a world without a magic sky daddy is!