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RE: When faith tries to answer a simple question.
November 16, 2014 at 6:35 pm
(November 16, 2014 at 5:18 pm)Lek Wrote: The universe either has boundaries or it is infinite.
This is true *only* for Euclidian space. You have evidence that we live in such a universe? Where's your Nobel prize?
In a universe with even the tiniest bit of curvature, "unbounded yet finite" is very much an option. Observations of our universe indicate that it is *possibly* flat, and definitely very nearly so.
(November 16, 2014 at 12:19 pm)Lek Wrote: If the universe is constantly expanding, what space is it expanding into? Do you just come to a wall that is the edge of the universe? If so, what is beyond that wall?
Space isn't expanding *into* anything, as far as we can tell. Where is the center of the universe? There isn't one. Where is the edge? There isn't one. As far as we can tell, there is no point within the universe where gross observation would be any different than it is from our reference frame.
(November 16, 2014 at 12:19 pm)Lek Wrote: Science and math are not capable of answering these questions.
Not currently. I'll also note that science and math aren't the ones pretending to know the answers.
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RE: When faith tries to answer a simple question.
November 16, 2014 at 6:50 pm
What did the Big Bang expand into?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: When faith tries to answer a simple question.
November 16, 2014 at 7:25 pm
(November 16, 2014 at 6:50 pm)IATIA Wrote: What did the Big Bang expand into?
That's a good question, but not one that necessarily has a satisfactory answer.
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RE: When faith tries to answer a simple question.
November 16, 2014 at 7:42 pm
(November 16, 2014 at 7:25 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (November 16, 2014 at 6:50 pm)IATIA Wrote: What did the Big Bang expand into?
That's a good question, but not one that necessarily has a satisfactory answer.
Basically, What I have learned is that the universe from the time of the Big Bang is 'creating' space-time. It still boils down to the universe is either infinite or bounded. If it is bounded, we still have the question of what is beyond that boundary. If it is infinite then we have the problem of description. In my learning, the boundary of the universe is where light and gravity have not yet traversed. If, in a curved universe, one were to try and travel outside, any path taken would still be within our universe, though finite, it would appear infinite.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: When faith tries to answer a simple question.
November 16, 2014 at 8:25 pm
(November 16, 2014 at 7:42 pm)IATIA Wrote: It still boils down to the universe is either infinite or bounded.
No, it doesn't. If the universe is *perfectly flat* (i.e. Euclidean, with no curvature) then it's either infinite or bounded. If it's not (i.e. there is any amount of curvature), then it can be finite and unbounded. We don't know which applies - current thought is that it is either flat, or very nearly so.
Don't take my word for it, read up on what cosmology actually has to say on the matter. But please, don't make the mistake of assuming that what you understand about Euclidean geometry necessarily applies.
Quote:If, in a curved universe, one were to try and travel outside, any path taken would still be within our universe, though finite, it would appear infinite.
This appears to be contradictory with the dichotomy you asserted in the first quoted section.
Also, I'm not sure that "outside the universe" is even a coherent concept.
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RE: When faith tries to answer a simple question.
November 16, 2014 at 8:29 pm
(November 16, 2014 at 7:42 pm)IATIA Wrote: (November 16, 2014 at 7:25 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: That's a good question, but not one that necessarily has a satisfactory answer.
Basically, What I have learned is that the universe from the time of the Big Bang is 'creating' space-time. It still boils down to the universe is either infinite or bounded. If it is bounded, we still have the question of what is beyond that boundary. If it is infinite then we have the problem of description. In my learning, the boundary of the universe is where light and gravity have not yet traversed. If, in a curved universe, one were to try and travel outside, any path taken would still be within our universe, though finite, it would appear infinite.
TL R there was a point where energy and known mass were at one point in nothingness and was there since nothing is unstable that's why had that anomaly that is something that started the big bang. Popular believe the universe is expanding there is a misconception that the universe is expanding its not it is static. its just unfortunate that well universes are starting to move apart is all in our case our universe its going to get kamikazed with another one. complain yell scream say god wont let let that happen but its happening now to use very slowly because were like dust not even dust in the grand scheme of everything. Humanity in whole is just lucky to live on a habitable planet. We could have been other things considering there is other planets with different gravity meaning weaker or stronger. But hey we don't have to worry about it now until the time comes when we do need to leave. The sun is not going to be around forever i just hope we don't decide to stick around.
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RE: When faith tries to answer a simple question.
November 16, 2014 at 8:32 pm
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2014 at 8:32 pm by abaris.)
(November 16, 2014 at 8:29 pm)dyresand Wrote: The sun is not going to be around forever i just hope we don't decide to stick around.
Right now I'm not going to be all worked up by what will happen in 4 billion years. There's still a lot of beers to be had before it happens.
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RE: When faith tries to answer a simple question.
November 16, 2014 at 10:35 pm
(November 16, 2014 at 8:32 pm)abaris Wrote: (November 16, 2014 at 8:29 pm)dyresand Wrote: The sun is not going to be around forever i just hope we don't decide to stick around.
Right now I'm not going to be all worked up by what will happen in 4 billion years. There's still a lot of beers to be had before it happens.
cheers mate
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