Eternal punishment is pointless.

[Chad32]

Sin is not responsible for corrupting creation. How exactly does disobedience to god cause thorns to grow, and make childbirth painful? All this was a curse Yahweh placed on the land because he was ticked off. Not something that just started happening because of disobedience.

Disobedience to Yahweh also didn't force him to kill an anaimal just to make clothes for Adam and Eve. He can poof animals into existence, but he has to slaughter one to get skins.

He killed the animal first and foremost as a sacrifice for their sin, then used the skin to cloth them. God cursed the creation because of the sin Adam and Eve committed. Sin is the reason for the curse and the curse is why the creation is corrupt. Sin started it off. He had a right to be ticked off, sin had entered His perfect creation because man misused the gift of free will.

GC

Sin is the reason Yahweh used to kill the animal and curse the land. Yahweh could have responded to disobedience in many other ways, but he decided to screw everything over. It isn't our fault the world is the way it is. It's because he overreacted towards people who aren't even around anymore.

What they did wasn't misusing free will. The whole point of freedom is the ability to make decisions for yourself. If you never think for yourself, or deviate from what someone else wants you to do, you aren't free. If he's going to punish us for any use of real freedom, he shouldn't have given us free will.

Your god is a failure. He wants all free thinking people to worship him, not realizing that free will itself prevents them all from doing it. Not to mention that the main reason most people don't worship him is because they don't believe he exists in the first place. He set up a system that was going to fail from the start.

That's your story but, it doesn't match up with scripture. I choose to believe the scriptures.

GC
(Today 02:20 pm)Chad32 Wrote:



No one can do something in a limited time to deserve eternal punishment or reward. If someone thinks eternally punishing people must happen in exchange for eternally rewarding others, then take away the eternal reward. You cannot justify eternal punishment. There are a plethora of other options to be given. A simple one is punishment and reward according to what you do. The better you are, the more reward you get. The worse you are, the more punishment you get. Either way it eventually ends, because your life would be finite. What's left is just continued existence in a neutral area, or you could send them back to earth for another life.

It is blackmail. It is evil. You seem to think there's some other reason because you're too busy trying to justify Yahweh's actions to give a legitimate reason why they're just. It's eternal because he never forgives people who die without worshiping him? Holding an eternal grudge does not paint anyone in a good light.

I wonder why you think it "truly" bothers me, after I've clearly given reasons. Apparently you don't know what the words grudge or blackmail means, because you denied that he hold grudges and blackmails people. Why do you think hell bothers me?

What makes you think you can judge Yahweh? You claim he's good, right? We're both using the same source to claim he's good or evil. You say he's good because he claims he's good. I say he's evil because his actions are evil. we're both making judgement calls. If I made a clay sculpture, and gae it free will, it has the right to ask whatever it wants. If I didn't want it asking questions and acting independently, I shouldn't have given it free will.

I read the first couple lines and that's all I needed to, you are screaming like a child who doesn't get his way, saying if I can't have it nobody can. You need an attitude adjustment IMO.

GC

Scripture doesn't always match up with reality. Remember when he said slavery was fine? And rape is fine as long as the girl isn't married or betrothed, or you kill everyone else in her home town first? And that genocide is fine? Yet in this great christian nation, those kind of things are illegal. Pr when Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself, but also hate yourself?


Whining like a baby if they don't get what they want sounds more like your god than me. I suppose I can't make you address my points. It's going to make it hard to continue our conversation, though. I suppose if Yahweh were real, and truly invincible, there's nothing I can really do about it. I'm just giving reasons why I wouldn't worship him if he actually showed up and said the bible was an accurate description of him. If you think I need an attitude adjustment, kindly respond to my points and we'll continue our conversation. Otherwise I'm unlikely to change my opinions.

[FatAndFaithless]

What is this... the fourth or fifth theist that claims to know what a "True Christian " is?

[The Valkyrie]

What is this... the fourth or fifth theist that claims to know what a "True Christian " is?

"anyone who doesn't belong to my particular version of my religion isn't a true Christian. And if someone from my religious brand commits a crime he was never a true believer . . ."

[abaris]

What is this... the fourth or fifth theist that claims to know what a "True Christian " is?

Way more than that. This board is full of true christians, who think the other ones are wrong.

[Ryantology]

Christianity is a single religion with 2.5 billion sects.

[abaris]

Christianity is a single religion with 2.5 billion sects.

So all that heretic torturing and burning didn't really pay off. Awful waste of good ressources indeed.

[Ryantology]

There were no failures on God's part, the created thought they were smarter than the created.

GC

A mentality you find in an idiot who is careless about auto maintenance and then blames the car when it breaks down.

Any flaw in a creation is the fault of the creator's. You can only avoid that quandary by accepting the fact that nothing is created.

[KevinM1]

Man, for a supreme being, god sure sucks at creating fail safes. If he were a programmer, I bet he wouldn't do any error checking whatsoever.

Protip for god: create defensively. It might help in the future.

[Thumpalumpacus]

He had a right to be ticked off, sin had entered His perfect creation because man misused the gift of free will.

GC

Was he surprised?

[dyresand]

He had a right to be ticked off, sin had entered His perfect creation because man misused the gift of free will.

GC

Was he surprised?

he shouldn't be he knows everything but yet does nothing to stop it.
he could have said see that tree don't eat the fruit you will die ill always punish you and every human being forever as long as they live. better ill set the tree on fire along with the talking snake lizard.