Eternal punishment is pointless.

[abaris]

The idea of original sin is pretty stupid why get punished at all?
god pretty much in the beginning should have gotten rid of the tree its his own fault we gotten free will.
something he never wanted us to have in the first place.

But where would be the fun in doing that? Once again, think Ted Bundy rather than Albert Einstein when it comes to god's character.

And logic doesn't even play a supporting role when it comes to the bible. I'd even be hard pressed to call it an extra.

[Nope]

[

And yet when then see this curiously ignorant deity ("might"? Wasn't he supposed to know everything?) worried that humans might live forever.

God wasn't worried about them living forever after they sinned, He was worried they would live forever in sin, having to grow more miserable day by day forever, they would be living in hell without the possibility of forgiveness. Hell on earth. God's plan was to redeem man so they could return to a relationship with Him.

Like I explained above, God did not want them to live forever in sin because they would grow more miserable each day. Every atheist that has talked about death on this forum has expressed they wouldn't want to live forever, ever wonder why, living in misery is something no one looks forward to.

GC
[/quote]


Could you provide bible verses for this, GC? I have read the bible all the way through and don't remember having read that the reason that god didn't want humans to live forever was so they wouldn't be miserable.

I wouldn't mind living forever if my loved ones lived with me but it isn't something important to me either. It doesn't frighten me that I will just end when I die.

[dyresand]

The idea of original sin is pretty stupid why get punished at all?
god pretty much in the beginning should have gotten rid of the tree its his own fault we gotten free will.
something he never wanted us to have in the first place.

But where would be the fun in doing that? Once again, think Ted Bundy rather than Albert Einstein when it comes to god's character.

And logic doesn't even play a supporting role when it comes to the bible. I'd even be hard pressed to call it an extra.

Its fine that adam and eve got punishment the whole human race shouldn't be punished for it. the logic their is flawed to get punished for something an ancestor did. but we know adam and eve not to be real people.

[abaris]

Its fine that adam and eve got punishment the whole human race shouldn't be punished for it. the logic their is flawed to get punished for something an ancestor did. but we know adam and eve not to be real people.

Even the Roman Catholic church admits that Adam and Eve weren't real, yet they still cling to the concept of original sin, committed by Adam and Eve. It's just too good an instrument for mind control to let it drop.

[Godscreated]

The idea of original sin is pretty stupid why get punished at all?
god pretty much in the beginning should have gotten rid of the tree its his own fault we gotten free will.
something he never wanted us to have in the first place.

You ever touched a Bible????

GC

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@ Chad32, why don't try and read the story and then try telling the truth???

GC

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[quote='Godschild' pid='805519' dateline='1417190602']

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God wasn't worried about them living forever after they sinned, He was worried they would live forever in sin, having to grow more miserable day by day forever, they would be living in hell without the possibility of forgiveness. Hell on earth. God's plan was to redeem man so they could return to a relationship with Him.


Like I explained above, God did not want them to live forever in sin because they would grow more miserable each day. Every atheist that has talked about death on this forum has expressed they wouldn't want to live forever, ever wonder why, living in misery is something no one looks forward to.

GC

---

Could you provide bible verses for this, GC? I have read the bible all the way through and don't remember having read that the reason that god didn't want humans to live forever was so they wouldn't be miserable.

I wouldn't mind living forever if my loved ones lived with me but it isn't something important to me either. It doesn't frighten me that I will just end when I die.

There are no verses in that story that directly say that, however when one reads the whole Bible and pays the slightest attention to he/she is reading he/she would actually see what sin does to people. Then only those who really care to learn to live a life close to God would actually understand.

GC

[Chad32]

You want to elaborate on what you think I got wrong?

Genesis chapter 2

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15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.

9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

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He makes Adam, and tells him don't eat this fruit. then he decides to make Eve. The snake talks to Eve, who one way or another also knew she wasn't supposed to eat the fruit. Not that Eve would know what die meant, since nothing had ever died. She convinced Adam to eat it too, and they realize that being naked is wrong, so they dress themselves. No explanation for why they were naked in the first place, despite this establishing that nakedness is already wrong. Adam didn't ask why they were naked in the first place, just like he didn't ask what die meant.

I know you're not happy with my deduction, because it doesn't reinforce the conclusion you've already made, but that's the way the story went.

[Smaug]

Garden of Eden verses from Genesis may be also interpreted as a story of attaining maturity (a common motive in myths). From the beginning of their lives Adam a Eve lived in the Garden of Eden care-free, happily ignorant and with only authority coming from God (their parent). But once they found out that there are other opinions than their parent's and contradicting information in general, they made their first really independent choice and disobeyed (rebelled, which was a sign that they may enter independant life). From now on they live their care-free childhood behind and face never before seen hardships: different responsibilities and necessities of grown-up life.

As for the literal interpretation, it doesn't make sense in any way other than as a heavy-duty tool of ideological indoctrination and supression.

[Chad32]

It does work better as a metaphor, but then you lose the idea of original sin, which I think is important to the Jesus story.

[abaris]

As for the literal interpretation, it doesn't make sense in any way other than as a heavy-duty tool of ideological indoctrination and supression.

And every christian denomination has their own little way to riddle it out. That's what's making GC's point of "knowledge" so ludicrous. He doesn't say, which church he attends, so it's nearly impossible to guess his Adam and Eve fairy tale.

And as I said above, the Catholics have abandoned the Adam and Eve bullshit. The only part they kept is original sin, which brings it to a whole new level of ludicrous.

It does work better as a metaphor, but then you lose the idea of original sin, which I think is important to the Jesus story.

Yeah, without it, there's no need for wonder boy.

[Smaug]

It does work better as a metaphor, but then you lose the idea of original sin, which I think is important to the Jesus story.

Yes, I'd say it's one of central ideas for Christian theology but the idea of explaining older myths with newer ones is what a Church may do but not how it has to be done to acheive some understanding of myth's origin. Thus I like metaphorical explanation better because I think it may be close to how this story actually came into existance (it's a know fact that ancient Jews borrowed a lot from much older myths).

And as I said above, the Catholics have abandoned the Adam and Eve bullshit. The only part they kept is original sin, which brings it to a whole new level of ludicrous.

Well, that's what you get when you try to modernize a heavily dogmatic ideology and make it more friendly and appealing to general population but without shattering it completely.