(November 19, 2014 at 12:44 pm)strawdawg Wrote: You're right, either way the cop don't stand a chance. A sacrificial lamb is needed (Darren Wilson).
Oh stop. This does not have to be a race issue. To me if we are giving Wilson the benefit of the doubt he was STILL WRONG, and not even intentionally if you want to go that far.
Cops can tell you they see all sorts of danger every day, you do that over and over and over and over, that society is going to be conditioned to train that law enforcement to assume the worst. You do that then you condition them to dominate from the first contact.
Now some here want to make it all about what happened at the car. BULLSHIT, once Brown was running away there was no excuse to continue firing. And the other witnesses are consistent in that even when he turned around, he was NOT rushing Wilson. One witness described it as a stumble.
No one has yet to explain how a call over petty theft should cause a cop to approach a suspect assuming they had just committed a murder? I have thrown my wallet at a cop and still ended up in the back of the car alive. I have seen others assault cops and again, still end up in the back of the car alive.
I find it sick that a guy goes into a movie theater murders several people and ends up in the back of a police car without a scratch. Brown may have resisted fine, but after he was fleeing, Wilson's fear which may have been in that moment went to anger.
I have seen myself and so have plenty of people both black and white, see cops get dominate and even needlessly angry. So even without Wilson being a racist and even if one wants to claim he didn't want to do it, the climate and conditions and his training still lead him to that end. I cannot give Wilson a free pass all the way considering how the aftermath played out and especially firing shots while Brown was running away.
The most important thing for both cops AND blacks AND whites is to stop thinking about one moment in time. These events happen as a result of long term conditions.
(November 19, 2014 at 2:12 pm)strawdawg Wrote: You are a victim of the news media bias. I have read the F.B.I. statistics on crime and blacks are 13.1 percent of the population yet they commit 70% of the violent felony's in this country.
No. Selection bias and sample rate error. You are looking at arrest records and prison population. That has nothing to do with the totality of ANY given population. Blacks and Latinos do not commit anymore crimes at a higher rate than whites. They simply get arrested more and punished more harshly.
Now you want me to take race out of this issue? Ok, if you lived in Israel who do you think is going to be MORE likely to be profiled or arrested, a Jewish majority, or an Arab minority(even if that individual has done nothing wrong)? Who do you think is more likely to have more fear of law in Israel, a Jewish majority or an Arab minority?
Now do I think all Jews are bigots in stating that? No, but the conditions are still there that produce that. It still is stupid to keep blaming everyone else.
I would say the same about how a Sunni majority is more likely to treat Shiites than Sunnis.
70% does not denote a higher crime rate by blacks. 70% only denotes a higher rate of arrest and convictions. You are merely twisting numbers to suit yourself to ignore a real issue.
Take the world's population into account when you talk about crime. There is always going to be with any population a ratio of crime because evolution produces it no matter what. Flawed logic however can cause those powers to over police one segment of that society more than others.
(November 19, 2014 at 11:53 am)Minimalist Wrote: The people will protest and the fucking cops will provoke them to violence.
I agree with you. The cop will get away with murder. They almost always do.
Um again, this still is unfair to the totality of long term problem solving.
Blacks DO have a right to fear cops. But I would also agree, for non political and non Tea Party bigoted reasons, that our police ARE over armed.
Do cops circle the wagons? HELL YA, I saw it personally myself. Used to work at a 7-11, cops were in and out all the time. One day on my off day, I pulled up on a single car accident not knowing who was in the car. Pulled an off duty cop out of the car and noticed an empty booze bottle on the floor. His buddies took my statement at the time. Got a summons for his court date. But while waiting for him to be called, one of his same buddies came up to me and said "we don't need you to testify". Code for, "If you do we know where you live". I didn't stick around.
But although those things do happen, I still don't think most cops set out to do that.
My take on Wilson isn't as much that he is a bigot, moreso society trained him to be dominate and fear the worst. I do think he went from fear to anger and simply got pissed and went too far. I do think race did play into his conditioning even if you want to claim he was not a bigot.
I am most concerned with how the process has been lopsided from the start.