Should you wait to talk to a child about atheism?

[Losty]

What even is an atheist book? I would say secular books, other fairy tales to compete with religious fairy tales, and books that teach critical thinking.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm trying to imagine a parent discussing the issue of atheism with a child and I keep seeing a grownup and his kid just sitting there for a short time, saying nothing. Finally they both nod, the parent says "glad we had this chat" and they both go about their day.

It's a pity it's not that easy in real life ... but it isn't.

[Esquilax]

I think the problem with questions like "should we talk to X group about atheism?" is that it conflates atheism with a lot of the things that a number of atheists value, but are not necessarily tenets of atheism. Talking about secular values, freethinking, the importance of inquiry free of fallacy or bias, those are the things that "talking about atheism" would entail in the minds of most atheists here, but they aren't actually atheist things at all. They're good life things, that enable us to live together as a society, not tenets of the dreaded Atheistic Religion.

Seems to me that, despite our best efforts, some of us get a little more infected by the religious conspiracy theory of how that conversation might go, than we should. Generally when we hear the religious talk about "teaching the children atheism," what we get is an oversimplified version of what they themselves do with their kids; the straight up command that there is no god, and that's what the children believe now. Of course, that completely misrepresents atheism, and you can throw in as many corollary lessons about "believing in nothing" or "relative morals" as you like for flavor, but I think it pays to remember that none of that is remotely accurate. A conversation about atheism to a child, judging from the atheist parents that have come in thus far and my own plans for my future kids, contains no discussion of atheism at all.

All it is, is a discussion about the importance of skepticism free of bias and indoctrination. That could hardly be seen as objectionable, unless there are some concepts that you want your children to blindly accept without ever investigating. At that point, that conversation might be stepping on your toes, but then... I kinda want it to, if that's what you're planning.

[Losty]

Hmm...I'll tell you the approach I take with my kids.
First of all, I make up elaborate answers to my kids' questions all the time. It started just because I thought it was funny and now I think it's good for them.
An example would be if my daughter asks me if god made her (which she has). I tell her that she started out as a simple ragdoll in a factory. A lot of ladies changed the doll adding and taking away things. Then finally a magic fairy tapped her on the head and she came to life. Then she tells me that that's crazy talk and I ask her what she thinks. Sometimes she'll say what she really thinks and sometimes she'll make something crazy up too. Then I'll say we should look it up and see what the professionals think (doctors, scientists, architects, etc. depending on the subject).
I like it because it makes learning fun and reminds my kids to doubt things that sound like crazy talk even if an adult tells them.

Second, the existence of god. I'm against giving the answer to this question and I don't think you should bring it up until they ask.
My daughter has asked me. I told her that god is the same as Santa Clause in that it's up to her to decide for herself if she believes and whatever she chooses is her decision only. She can't tell other people what to choose or that she thinks they're wrong because that's not nice.

[Minimalist]

Isn't it funny that the atheist parents here, the ones belonging to the group that most fundie religious groups crow about indoctrinating children with atheistic public schools that took god out of them, are the ones who most easily jump to "answer their questions but let them make up their own minds," while the religious are mostly into getting them while they're young?

Oh, and by "funny," I mean "depressing and infuriating."

Yeah, something like:

"Listen to what I say, or Jesus and Virgin Mary will choke you"

"And then Bishop Murphy will shove his dick up your ass!"

[Alex K]

I have got to share this true encounter which I had with my wife in the Natural History museum in NY a few years back. There was this exhibit about the history of the universe, and at the end of it there was a young girl, maybe about 8 yo or so, with her dad. She turned to her dad and loudly asked - did God make the dinosaurs? Her Dad looked around and was apparently a little embarassed, but sat down with her and really explained the stuff as far as we could tell, so there was the big bang, and evolution, and so on and so forth. The girl listened carefully and after her dad had finished, she looked puzzled. "Dad?", she said. "Did Big Bang kill God?". At this point my wife and I couldn't help it any more and tried to suppress our laughter as good as we could. Dad took daughter by the hand and quickly got outta there. And we thought: wow, such a good question on so many levels, and were in awe.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I have got to share this true encounter which I had with my wife in the Natural History museum in NY a few years back. There was this exhibit about the history of the universe, and at the end of it there was a young girl, maybe about 8 yo or so, with her dad. She turned to her dad and loudly asked - did God make the dinosaurs? Her Dad looked around and was apparently a little embarassed, but sat down with her and really explained the stuff as far as we could tell, so there was the big bang, and evolution, and so on and so forth. The girl listened carefully and after her dad had finished, she looked puzzled. "Dad?", she said. "Did Big Bang kill God?". At this point my wife and I couldn't help it any more and tried to suppress our laughter as good as we could. Dad took daughter by the hand and quickly got outta there. And we thought: wow, such a good question on so many levels, and were in awe.

Kids are indeed natural scientists. Half the battle is asking the right question.

[abaris]

My dad owned two stores selling car supplies. He was a mechanic by trade and he was very interested in all kinds of scientific stuff. Astronomy and physics foremost. I'm an idiot when it comes to natural sciences, but his influence made me interested in the world and how it works. I inherited his love for cars though and before I could even read, I could name any car by the sound of it's engine. They sounded very characteristic back in the 60ies. There was never any bullshit talk about Adam and Eve, instead we made frequent trips to all kinds of museums, natural history among them. I loved to look at dinosaur skelettons and never ever doubted that they were very old although I couldn't quite grasp the concept of millions of years.

I can't remember a single instance when my family talked about religion although we were Easter and Christmas catholics when I was a child.

Point is, if you're brought up in an environment where you're encouraged to aks questions and where you're also encouraged to look at what science presents us with, religion doesn't find very much of an opening. There's no need for active indoctrination when everything you have to do is presenting an open and intelligent environment.

[Jenny A]

I have got to share this true encounter which I had with my wife in the Natural History museum in NY a few years back. There was this exhibit about the history of the universe, and at the end of it there was a young girl, maybe about 8 yo or so, with her dad. She turned to her dad and loudly asked - did God make the dinosaurs? Her Dad looked around and was apparently a little embarassed, but sat down with her and really explained the stuff as far as we could tell, so there was the big bang, and evolution, and so on and so forth. The girl listened carefully and after her dad had finished, she looked puzzled. "Dad?", she said. "Did Big Bang kill God?". At this point my wife and I couldn't help it any more and tried to suppress our laughter as good as we could. Dad took daughter by the hand and quickly got outta there. And we thought: wow, such a good question on so many levels, and were in awe.

I love this. This is why simply answering kids questions as they come up, honestly and opening, and running to the books if necessary, lead to atheist adults.

[robvalue]

Very interesting stuff.

On a side note, what do people think about allowing or encouraging children to believe fake things such as Santa? Is it harmless? I don't have kids (and won't) so it's not something I'll have to decide. But I feel a bit uneasy about the idea of going along with it if I did have them.