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RE: Let The Creatard Shitting of Bricks Begineth
August 9, 2015 at 1:30 am
Snow, sorry, that comic book is not a science textbook. What you are doing is retrofitting after the fact.
FYI, if you think Christians are the only religion to try to co opt science to prop up a comic book, you'd be wrong. I have been an on line debater and atheist activist since 2001, I have seen this bullshit tactic from Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and even a Rastafarian.
Religion is not science, not even close.
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RE: Let The Creatard Shitting of Bricks Begineth
August 10, 2015 at 2:10 pm
(August 8, 2015 at 12:11 am)snowtracks Wrote: Gen 1 is a chronological summary account of the major creation events spanning some 13 billion years.
Gen 2 starts with a ref. to when God shaped the earth and the heavens but from that point forward, it begins to elaborate on the ‘why’ or ‘purpose’ of creation.
This is the apologist's attempt to square the two accounts, but it doesn't work. The two creation accounts are not complementary explanations of the same events. They differ on some fundamental points. In the first account, the humans are created together; in the second account, they are separate creations. In the first account, the human pair get their directions straight from god; in the second account only the man gets instructions direct from god. In the first account they are given the fruit of all of the plants and trees on Earth as food; in the second account they are only given the trees of the garden with an additional exception. In the first account they are given all of the animals to rule over, yet the story following the first account is how an animal deceived the woman into breaking god's single commandment to them.
It is more realistic to think that the person who wrote the second account had either never read the first account or had possibly only heard some details of it. He makes no attempt to make the two accounts similar; he is writing his own story and he is writing it about a very different god.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Let The Creatard Shitting of Bricks Begineth
August 18, 2015 at 11:43 pm
(August 10, 2015 at 2:10 pm)Tonus Wrote: (August 8, 2015 at 12:11 am)snowtracks Wrote: Gen 1 is a chronological summary account of the major creation events spanning some 13 billion years.
Gen 2 starts with a ref. to when God shaped the earth and the heavens but from that point forward, it begins to elaborate on the ‘why’ or ‘purpose’ of creation.
This is the apologist's attempt to square the two accounts, but it doesn't work. The two creation accounts are not complementary explanations of the same events. They differ on some fundamental points. In the first account, the humans are created together; in the second account, they are separate creations. In the first account, the human pair get their directions straight from god; in the second account only the man gets instructions direct from god. In the first account they are given the fruit of all of the plants and trees on Earth as food; in the second account they are only given the trees of the garden with an additional exception. In the first account they are given all of the animals to rule over, yet the story following the first account is how an animal deceived the woman into breaking god's single commandment to them.
It is more realistic to think that the person who wrote the second account had either never read the first account or had possibly only heard some details of it. He makes no attempt to make the two accounts similar; he is writing his own story and he is writing it about a very different god. Again, Gen 1 is a summary. A flawless overview of 13 billion years of natural history in just one page written some 3 tya, and miraculous describes the sequential steps (which aligns perfectly with the scientifically record) by which Earth became ready for human habitation. Gen 2 like all other references adds details to the summary. Gen 2 in particular gives a spiritual perspective on creation; thus, it begins to elaborate on ‘purpose’ of creation. The frame of reference (FOR) changes to a small portion of Earth’s surface (Eden) from the vantage point of one human being in that location; whereas, the ‘FOR’ in Gen 1 is about the Earth’s surface. Also, Gen 2 unlike Gen 1 isn’t written in a time ordered sequence since the purpose has changed from the physical to the ‘why’ of the physical.
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Quote: In the first account, the humans are created together; in the second account, they are separate creations. In the first account, the human pair get their directions straight from god
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Gen 1 says “God created male and female” (The ‘summary’ doesn’t say created simultaneously).
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
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RE: Let The Creatard Shitting of Bricks Begineth
September 5, 2015 at 6:56 pm
(August 18, 2015 at 11:43 pm)snowtracks Wrote: Again, Gen 1 is a summary. A flawless overview of 13 billion years of natural history in just one page written some 3 tya, and miraculous describes the sequential steps (which aligns perfectly with the scientifically record) by which Earth became ready for human habitation.
Oh, no. Just reading this makes me immeasurably sad. Anybody seriously asserting a 'flawless' account that says plants where made before the sun and stars makes me depressed.
I would more generally advocate that one only leave one entrance into their mind(reason), and keep the rest of it rather closed, as it is one hell of a lot easier to shovel shit in than it is to get it out.
If the evidence and reason for you to believe something isn't really any better than the reason you should believe some rural farmer from Arkansas got anally probed by interstellar visitors, then you probably shouldn't.
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RE: Let The Creatard Shitting of Bricks Begineth
September 6, 2015 at 12:44 am
(September 5, 2015 at 6:56 pm)thehedglin Wrote: (August 18, 2015 at 11:43 pm)snowtracks Wrote: Again, Gen 1 is a summary. A flawless overview of 13 billion years of natural history in just one page written some 3 tya, and miraculous describes the sequential steps (which aligns perfectly with the scientifically record) by which Earth became ready for human habitation.
Oh, no. Just reading this makes me immeasurably sad. Anybody seriously asserting a 'flawless' account that says plants where made before the sun and stars makes me depressed.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
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RE: Let The Creatard Shitting of Bricks Begineth
September 6, 2015 at 12:56 am
(September 6, 2015 at 12:44 am)snowtracks Wrote: (September 5, 2015 at 6:56 pm)thehedglin Wrote: Oh, no. Just reading this makes me immeasurably sad. Anybody seriously asserting a 'flawless' account that says plants where made before the sun and stars makes me depressed.
Poor boy is all depressed because he thinks the narrative states that...just so immeasurable sad, that is really sad that someone would be so terribly depressed, and to think that it didn't take that much.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
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RE: Let The Creatard Shitting of Bricks Begineth
September 6, 2015 at 12:58 am
(September 6, 2015 at 12:56 am)snowtracks Wrote: Poor boy is all depressed because he thinks the narrative states that...just so immeasurable sad, that is really sad that someone would be so terribly depressed, and to think that it didn't take that much.
Do you deny that that is what it says?
I would more generally advocate that one only leave one entrance into their mind(reason), and keep the rest of it rather closed, as it is one hell of a lot easier to shovel shit in than it is to get it out.
If the evidence and reason for you to believe something isn't really any better than the reason you should believe some rural farmer from Arkansas got anally probed by interstellar visitors, then you probably shouldn't.
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RE: Let The Creatard Shitting of Bricks Begineth
September 6, 2015 at 1:13 am
(This post was last modified: September 6, 2015 at 1:14 am by IATIA.)
Yes he does. Snowy will deny anything contrary to his convictions. Facts and science be damned. Full speed ahead.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Let The Creatard Shitting of Bricks Begineth
September 6, 2015 at 1:21 am
(September 6, 2015 at 1:13 am)IATIA Wrote: Yes he does. Snowy will deny anything contrary to his convictions. Facts and science be damned. Full speed ahead.
Maybe, but I think he has made a claim that even he has to know is fundamentally incorrect.
I would more generally advocate that one only leave one entrance into their mind(reason), and keep the rest of it rather closed, as it is one hell of a lot easier to shovel shit in than it is to get it out.
If the evidence and reason for you to believe something isn't really any better than the reason you should believe some rural farmer from Arkansas got anally probed by interstellar visitors, then you probably shouldn't.
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RE: Let The Creatard Shitting of Bricks Begineth
September 6, 2015 at 1:25 am
Maybe, but facts and science be damned. Full speed ahead.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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