Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 27, 2026, 11:09 am
Atheist Forums › Community › Philosophy v
Proof A=A

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Thread Modes
Proof A=A
fr0d0 Offline
H0ary H0bbit
Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation: 80
#31
RE: Proof A=A
February 23, 2010 at 7:24 pm
You are grossly misinformed cake.

Firstly I made no claim - your claim on the other hand is that: "Logic alone can actually refute impossible beings outside our plane of existence that violate reality"

The logic problem is improvable scientifically because it isn't a question that science addresses, but philosophy, theology. Saying chalk has to be cheese because we only accept cheese isn't a logical argument.

Omnipotence isn't contradictory. See here: http://atheistforums.org/thread-2080.html
Find
Reply
Welsh cake Offline
Banned
Religious Views: Apatheist
Posts: 2254
Threads: 85
Joined: January 24, 2010
Reputation: 29
#32
RE: Proof A=A
February 24, 2010 at 7:56 pm
(February 23, 2010 at 7:24 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: You are grossly misinformed cake.

Firstly I made no claim - your claim on the other hand
Stop right there.

(February 21, 2010 at 8:53 am)fr0d0 Wrote: You can't use (non) evidence. You can't use logic to disprove God but you can have a lot of fun trying, and make tons of money too.
Its your claim, not mine. Let's not be intellectually dishonest now.
Find
Reply
fr0d0 Offline
H0ary H0bbit
Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation: 80
#33
RE: Proof A=A
February 24, 2010 at 8:46 pm
That'd be a negative cake. No one has to prove a negative. You made a positive assertion which you refuse to back up. We've had several discussions on here where we've concluded that it's only the insane that could prove positively that there is or is not a God. We're all agnostic in that sense.. apart from you from your statement above.. unless you want to retract that?
Find
Reply
Welsh cake Offline
Banned
Religious Views: Apatheist
Posts: 2254
Threads: 85
Joined: January 24, 2010
Reputation: 29
#34
RE: Proof A=A
February 26, 2010 at 5:21 pm
(February 24, 2010 at 8:46 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: That'd be a negative cake. No one has to prove a negative.
So now you're arguing about proving or disproving an existential negative. Hooray.

Except that's not what I'm arguing.

I'm asking YOU why you seem to regard logic is somehow unable or incapable of refuting the logically impossible (which it is fucking able to do, ideas without any evidence for an existence claim can be refuted).

I'm waiting...
Find
Reply
fr0d0 Offline
H0ary H0bbit
Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation: 80
#35
RE: Proof A=A
February 26, 2010 at 7:15 pm
Again you are asserting that God is logically impossible which cannot be substantiated - unless you can enlighten us all how. I only know of rational reasoning that states we cannot know, and not what you are asserting here, that you do know of a logical impossibility.

You are making an absolute statement that God is logically impossible are you not?

The default position is that we cannot know. God, defined as scientifically unprovable, supernatural etc.. would require supernatural methods of detection. So how exactly are you ruling out something you are ill equipped to know?

No one on this site has backed up a position of logical impossibility... because it would be rationally incoherent. Same with a logical certainty. Both are untenable.
Find
Reply
Violet Offline
Buffalo and Bee Lover
*****
Religious Views: There are beeautiful cloud buffalo in the sky.
Posts: 15755
Threads: 194
Joined: May 15, 2009
Reputation: 145
#36
RE: Proof A=A
February 27, 2010 at 6:08 am (This post was last modified: February 27, 2010 at 6:08 am by Violet.)
fr0d0 Wrote:No one on this site has backed up a position of logical impossibility... because it would be rationally incoherent. Same with a logical certainty. Both are untenable.
I'm 'no one' now? Sad Not that I do any more, but I have in the past asserted that Tongue
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
Find
Reply
fr0d0 Offline
H0ary H0bbit
Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation: 80
#37
RE: Proof A=A
February 27, 2010 at 9:22 am (This post was last modified: February 27, 2010 at 9:23 am by fr0d0.)
My apologies beautiful one Smile I'd forgotten that you'd said that, such is my perception of you Tongue
Find
Reply
Welsh cake Offline
Banned
Religious Views: Apatheist
Posts: 2254
Threads: 85
Joined: January 24, 2010
Reputation: 29
#38
RE: Proof A=A
February 28, 2010 at 4:31 pm
(February 26, 2010 at 7:15 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Again you are asserting that God is logically impossible which cannot be substantiated - unless you can enlighten us all how. I only know of rational reasoning that states we cannot know, and not what you are asserting here, that you do know of a logical impossibility.

You are making an absolute statement that God is logically impossible are you not?
This depends on your definition of God, by God, I'm assuming you mean the Christian one, whose ontology at best is self-contradicting, and at worse features attributes that are so vague it ceases to have any practical relevance, either way sky daddy is a logically impossible concept.

Now, higher beings or more complex life forms may exist, but we cannot know because without sufficient evidence there's no valid reason to believe they do.


Quote:The default position is that we cannot know. God, defined as scientifically unprovable, supernatural etc.. would require supernatural methods of detection. So how exactly are you ruling out something you are ill equipped to know?
How do you know that we cannot know?
Find
Reply
Watson Offline
Assuming there's a scheme.
***
Religious Views: Christian
Posts: 1091
Threads: 18
Joined: January 26, 2010
Reputation: 13
#39
RE: Proof A=A
February 28, 2010 at 4:34 pm
WC, what Christian God are you talking about? The one I'm acquainted with is in no way vague or lacking in attributes which can be defined. In fact, there are such simple ways of defining him I find it amusing you call any possible God 'complex', bbecause in reality, God is very simple.
Find
Reply
fr0d0 Offline
H0ary H0bbit
Religious Views: “Never to suffer would never to have been blessed.” - Edgar Allan Poe
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation: 80
#40
RE: Proof A=A
February 28, 2010 at 4:42 pm
@ cake: The ontology is certainly not contradictory - you gave an example and I linked you to explanations of why that was not so. Now you're repeating the accusation. Again with the blind assertions.

Quote:How do you know that we cannot know?

I see no evidence for. Do you? Please avail us all of your unique revelation or STFU
Find
Reply


Atheist Forums › Community › Philosophy v
Proof A=A

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The Cosmological Proof LinuxGal 53 14703 September 24, 2023 at 12:24 pm
Last Post: LinuxGal
  [Serious] Criticism of Aquinas' First Way or of the Proof of God from Motion. spirit-salamander 75 19479 May 3, 2021 at 12:18 pm
Last Post: Neo-Scholastic
  A 'proof' of God's existence - free will mrj 54 16594 August 9, 2020 at 10:25 am
Last Post: Sal
  Proof that I'm immortal Shantideva 64 14553 September 11, 2018 at 7:03 pm
Last Post: Angrboda
  An easy proof that rational numbers are countable. Jehanne 7 3977 February 22, 2018 at 10:30 pm
Last Post: Jehanne
  Who Has the Burden of Proof? Rhondazvous 10 5394 October 26, 2015 at 10:49 pm
Last Post: jenny1972
  Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist Rational AKD 348 141430 October 22, 2015 at 6:34 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
Exclamation Proof For The Materialization Of Dream Objects Into Reality A Lucid Dreaming Atheist 15 6757 August 19, 2015 at 1:44 am
Last Post: Alex K
  Proof of God Harris 257 103422 May 21, 2015 at 8:24 pm
Last Post: IATIA
  Eternal the originator of time - proof. Mystic 114 37523 April 19, 2015 at 2:00 am
Last Post: robvalue



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)