Agnostic: a pointless term?

[Dystopia]

Holy crap.

I think the resurrection of this thread proves that Blackout is God. Or that this thread is. . . or that this thread is Blackout in a different form.

What's up with using other people's avatars?

This thread wasn't actually 30 days old, at least the notification wasn't there.

I am more interesting than god

[Whateverist]

That's okay, Blackout. Stand your ground .. especially when the streets fill with the brain hungry horde of the dead.

[Darkstar]

Just wondering if I am the only one here who views a difference in meaning between active belief and knowledge ...

I [actively] believe I will still be alive half an hour from now, but I don't know if I will still be alive then.

You're not the only one. I consider myself to be a 'strong' atheist, but also an agnostic one. I am reasonably certain that no gods exist, but I do not claim to know this for a fact.

This thread wasn't actually 30 days old, at least the notification wasn't there.

[Dystopia]

Just wondering if I am the only one here who views a difference in meaning between active belief and knowledge ...

I [actively] believe I will still be alive half an hour from now, but I don't know if I will still be alive then.

You're not the only one. I consider myself to be a 'strong' atheist, but also an agnostic one. I am reasonably certain that no gods exist, but I do not claim to know this for a fact.

Usually strong atheism is synonymous with gnostic atheism, but I'll admit the word strong has different meanings and may not specifically mean the person claims knowledge on the god hypothesis

[AFTT47]

I got to the point that I refuse to get into an argument about God-belief labels. If someone asks, I say I am atheist/agnostic. If they ask for clarification, I tell them I am unsure if there is a generic God but lack belief as long as there is no evidence for such. I also tell them I am plenty comfortable making the positive claim that the God of the Three Stooges (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) does not exist. Then I tell them to call me whatever they want. Call me an atheist, call me agnostic, or call me an asshole. I don't really care as long as you don't try to tell me what I believe based on a poorly-defined label.

[c172]

Wow. I didn't see this thread earlier. I confess I haven't gone through the whole thing yet. I always thought agnostic meant that you feel there is no way to know whether there is a god or not. I feel like there is a way to know one way or the other, but we don't know what that is yet. That said, if we knew how to, I think we could confirm there is no god. We've nearly done so already.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Since god is not defined, I know something not defined already cannot exist

I'm not so sure of that. Before human flight, lift wasn't defined, yet the birds made use of it daily.

I sometimes cannot define my own emotions, yet I know that they are present.

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I always thought agnostic meant that you feel there is no way to know whether there is a god or not.

That's definitely one form of agnosticism, Huxley being its most famous exponent. But the word can also mean "unknowing".

[Dystopia]

I'm not so sure of that. Before human flight, lift wasn't defined, yet the birds made use of it daily.

I sometimes cannot define my own emotions, yet I know that they are present.

This is not a very good analogy - When we talk about the god hypothesis, we see that there are billions of people around the world during a period of thousands of years that claim deities exist - Yet there is not one precise definition of what a deity is supposed to be; it varies according to each religion, each theological position, each personal individual belief - Let's pick the example of Christians - Some of them may have a different concept of how god works or how god behaves or acts. My point is that if the god concept isn't even defined, I could as well dismiss it from the beginning under the form of a knowledge claim by saying something that is not defined cannot exist.

Your emotions may be hard to define, but since you can feel them and it's possible to scientifically measure, account, quantify and verify emotions - You know they exist, regardless of your ability to sometimes determine with reasonable certainty what precise emotions you are feeling. [It's not possible to physically get a sample of emotions, don't get me wrong, but it is possible to observe body reactions and psychological responses humans have - For example, when you start shaking in front of eminent danger, that's an emotion - Fear; and it's verifiable trough observation of your individual behaviour]

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yes, different people have different definitions of god(s). That doesn't mean that the concept is undefined, it just means that it has multiple definitions.

As for quantifying emotions, that would be an interesting topic. Maybe you could start a thread on that?

[Dystopia]

My biggest problem with the topic of emotions is when people confuse feelings with emotions. There is a difference. By chance I know it due to highschool psychology classes (nothing to detailed, but still useful)

Other than that, I don't know what we could do in such a thread other than giving personal testimony of our everyday emotions as "believable" (assuming everyone's telling the truth) proof of emotions existing