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RE: Agnostic: a pointless term?
February 4, 2015 at 5:25 am
(This post was last modified: February 4, 2015 at 5:26 am by bennyboy.)
(February 4, 2015 at 1:04 am)whateverist Wrote: You make that sound pretty special. Do you believe it is impossible for anyone to have knowledge about gods/God? Or is your agnosticism personal, more a matter of fitting your dispositions? I only ask to find out if you think every right thinking person should share your position. No, I wouldn't expect many to hold the same position.
There are several different reasons why I consider myself agnostic. One is a general distrust of the human capacity to comprehend truth. One is the great variety of God ideas which make a single answer to a general question too difficult. Another is a leaning toward idealism as opposed to physicalism.
I believe that the truth is at a border condition: to be found at whatever is under QM, or inside a black hole, or at the Big Bang. And I think that in those conditions, there are so many ambiguities and paradoxes that words probably cease to really mean anything. In other words, I think in those cases, you might come across something you COULD call God, but whether people would choose to do so would still come down to their semantic preferences.
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RE: Agnostic: a pointless term?
February 4, 2015 at 1:41 pm
(This post was last modified: February 4, 2015 at 2:25 pm by Thumpalumpacus.)
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RE: Agnostic: a pointless term?
February 5, 2015 at 7:19 am
(This post was last modified: February 5, 2015 at 7:28 am by Creed of Heresy.)
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RE: Agnostic: a pointless term?
February 5, 2015 at 9:16 am
(February 5, 2015 at 7:19 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote: You say you are being "intellectually honest." I say "you are keeping an open mind to the impossible." The existence of a unicorn is just as impossible as the existence of a god. Impossible or improbable? These are not the same thing.
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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RE: Agnostic: a pointless term?
February 5, 2015 at 5:49 pm
(This post was last modified: February 5, 2015 at 6:25 pm by Creed of Heresy.)
(February 5, 2015 at 9:16 am)Pizz-atheist Wrote: (February 5, 2015 at 7:19 am)Creed of Heresy Wrote: You say you are being "intellectually honest." I say "you are keeping an open mind to the impossible." The existence of a unicorn is just as impossible as the existence of a god. Impossible or improbable? These are not the same thing.
Now there's the million-dollar question, isn't it?
On the one hand, there might be a possibility. On the other, if there even is such a possibility, then the chances would be so innumerably astronomically remote, would it even be worth actually considering as a possibility? Or would those chances be so high that they actually step into the realms of impossibility?
I know, this is the same argument delusionists use to argue against the idea of the chaos of random chance resulting in the universe. Difference is, it nevertheless still happened. But what if the odds are even more remote, by an order of many magnitudes, for something else? And in that same breath, if the result is what it is, does that actually mean the odds are 1 in 1?
My answer to all those questions, inevitably, is "I don't know." Which, bizarrely and contradictorily enough, is actually an agnostic stance.
That said...a unicorn would have to exist on a planescape, as all other equines do. They would also have to have a sizable, sustainable population count. We would therefore have discovered them by now, don't you think? Do dragons exist? Do leprechauns? Is there the possibility they do? Is there the possibility of magic?
I say no. Why? Because the possibility of their existence is 0. Why? Because we've had plenty of time to actually discover these things. We have not. Ergo, they are not real. They are not possible, by virtue of their non-existence.
If a hypothesis is disproven, demonstrated as false, do we not then say that the truth of that hypothesis is not possible?
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RE: Agnostic: a pointless term?
February 5, 2015 at 8:52 pm
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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RE: Agnostic: a pointless term?
February 5, 2015 at 9:10 pm
Saying that something is impossible is easy. Demonstrating that, not so easy. Remember, you cannot use the absence of evidence to support impossibility, which is why you were asked about improbability, which is, I think, much more apt.
My mind is open to whatever has evidence supporting it, in direct proportion to the quality and quantity of said evidence. If that leads me to the improbable, so be it. I don't like claiming knowledge I don't actually possess, and that's not a matter of fear, but honesty.
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RE: Agnostic: a pointless term?
February 5, 2015 at 9:49 pm
So much for the "No True Atheist" fallacy.
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RE: Agnostic: a pointless term?
February 5, 2015 at 9:59 pm
(This post was last modified: February 5, 2015 at 10:01 pm by AFTT47.)
I don't think the unicorn is a good analogy for God. If we're looking for a unicorn here on Earth, there are only so many places where it could possibly be. The chances of an animal that size existing on this planet without a single shred of evidence is essentially zero. The situation with God is different. It could be entirely outside the universe, in a region between multiple universes. There is no reason to believe there is such a critter but we're talking about a realm we know nothing about. Not only is it impossible to rule out but I don't see how anyone could begin to predict odds.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
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RE: Agnostic: a pointless term?
February 5, 2015 at 10:20 pm
(This post was last modified: February 5, 2015 at 10:20 pm by bennyboy.)
(February 5, 2015 at 9:59 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: I don't think the unicorn is a good analogy for God. If we're looking for a unicorn here on Earth, there are only so many places where it could possibly be. The chances of an animal that size existing on this planet without a single shred of evidence is essentially zero. The situation with God is different. It could be entirely outside the universe, in a region between multiple universes. There is no reason to believe there is such a critter but we're talking about a realm we know nothing about. Not only is it impossible to rule out but I don't see how anyone could begin to predict odds.
Nuh, uh. Unicorns are magical, and they can drink fairy dust to travel into outer space, at least on full moons and Tuesdays.
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