Any Theists on AF, I Challenge You to a Debate on the Existence of God

[Simon Moon]

Faith is assenting to information and then acting upon it. I believe that God loves me and the proof of that. I act understanding that to be true.

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Yes, we understand that you are convinced that a god exists.

But people can be convinced for good reasons and bad reasons.

Please explain why your reasons are good.

[fr0d0]

Faith is assenting to information and then acting upon it. I believe that God loves me and the proof of that. I act understanding that to be true.

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@ tsq

I wouldn't defend the sa. Some news was reported on here from the Australian press a year or so ago that was clearly spurious about their supposed anti gay stance. They're anti gay as much as any mainstream Christian church. I don't agree with that stance but I've not seen any evidence of anything more offensive.

But beyond your feelings, what is your proof that your god loves you.

I said information you said feelings. =/=

[Nope]

But beyond your feelings, what is your proof that your god loves you.

I said information you said feelings. =/=

Okay, lay out the information that you have that proves that your god loves you

[Esquilax]

But beyond your feelings, what is your proof that your god loves you.

I said information you said feelings. =/=

Do you understand the difference between asserting the existence of information, and detailing what that information is?

[fr0d0]

My understanding of reality is that it is shaped and maintained by God. My understanding is that the universe is just from shared and honed information. I accept information from a wide variety of sources, including atheism, but all shaped by my understanding of Christianity. Love rules in my understanding.

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I said information you said feelings. =/=

Do you understand the difference between asserting the existence of information, and detailing what that information is?

Your problem is with understanding the information. You and I given the same information reach opposite conclusions. Mine in line with the authors and their descendants. Yours not. Personally I'd rather you focus on your own ideas rather than trying to understand from putting someone else's thoughts down.

[Jenny A]

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Requiring some proof before belief does not require being devoid of faith in others, emotion, or love for that matter. I do have faith in others' love for me. But that faith is based on experience, and past a certain point, I would cease to believe in a particular person's love, were it contradicted with any regularity. And I wouldn't say someone who had faith in the love of an abusive partner had strength of mind, quite the contrary.

But, and it is a major but, I've never had to have faith in the existence of people who love me. I have plenty of evidence of their physical existence. I don't have faith in an imaginary friend's love.

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Faith it is, nonetheless. Something you cannot know, only assess intellectually and emotionally. Sadly, to me, your understanding of the universe/ God is negative/ indifferent.

Frankly, nothing can be proved with absolute certainty except mathematical and logical propositions. Everything is a matter of intellectual or emotional assessment. Yes, when I believe in a person's good will, friendship, love, honesty, or ability, it is akin to faith because the decision is often more emotional than intellectual, though I do weigh real evidence intellectually in making those determinations. I submit that everyone does to some degree. My faith in my husbands love, my parents' love, the love of various friends, and my children's love, is based in large part on thousands of experiences over a long period of time. But I repeat, and this is important, I do not have to have faith in their existence. That is easily proven, unlike this god idea.

I'm not indifferent to the universe. I'm very much interested in understanding it, and in particular, the part of it I and other humans occupy. And I have an emotional attachment to much in the universe, awe even.

But, absent evidence that there is a god, I have indeed long since determined that there is no god. That is an intellectual, evidence based determination, not an emotional one. But I'm not indifferent to the idea of the Christian god. I find him to be a despicable character if he is anything like the god described in the Bible. And, I have become overtly hostile to some types of belief in such a character, as they lead to much pain and suffering in the world. I am interested in how and why people come to believe in god.

[LastPoet]

It is futile to argue a god into existence, since the thing remains to be defined. WTF is a god anyway? Everybody seems to have a very different personal idea of what it is

[IATIA]

All gods were made in man's image.

Throughout history, the gods have displayed wants, desires and emotions. For a true god, how could these things have any meaning? How could a god be angry or jealous? What could a god possibly want?

[abaris]

How could a god be angry or jealous? What could a god possibly want?

That's why, for quite a long time after leaving christianity, I still considered a totally neutral higher being a possibility. But it's futile to worship something neutral, so I already was an atheist back then.

[robvalue]

Theists think God created man in his image.

Atheists think man created God in his image.

Science has done an amazing job of explaining our universe, without the need for any kind of divine tinkering, as far back as almost to the Big Bang. So a universe with a God screwing about appears exactly the same as a one without a God at all.

It's an old superstition to fill gaps in our knowledge which is way past its usefulness to anyone interested in actual reality.

Sure there could have been a creator, and it's possible it still exists. But if you think some arse hole book written by bloodthirsty idiots ages ago can tell us stuff about the creator that we can't figure out today, that's just absurd.

For all we know, worshipping the creator, if it exists, could be the single thing that really pisses him off.

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Oh yeah, also, we're insignificant peons. We're cancerous slime buckets ruining our tiny speck of a planet.

If there was a creator, and if it's still around, and if it still cares about this reality, I really doubt we'd be of much interest. If he even noticed us, you think he'd be impressed with us doing bizarre rituals and all trying to silently talk to him? Saying, "sure your plan is perfect, but can you change it please just for me, throwing everything else into danger? I need my car keys."