My privilege as a straight, white, cisgender, middle class thin male

[Jackalope]

It means one group possesses higher social power over the other

Then do you also recognize that who has privilege will change depending on situation?

(Piggybacking on your post not because I find any disagreement with what you say, but rather because it's it's a convenient jumping off point to what I'd like to say.)

Indeed. There's a particular nighclub near my work where as a cisgendered person, I would not be enjoying any social privilege at all. It's neither fair to the patrons that they aren't as accepted in the general public as I, nor that I'm not as accepted there. People judge, and that sucks.

I'm a white male. What I resent is being lumped in with other white males as a group. I strive to be as race / gender / orientation blind as possible. Is it too much to ask the same from others? My skin color and gender don't define me any more than anyone elses - and I can assure you that my sexuality certainly might be something that was judged if I didn't choose to keep it to myself.

[Dystopia]

It means one group possesses higher social power over the other

Then do you also recognize that who has privilege will change depending on situation? For example, white people have greater privilege most the time, but if you're white and living in a ghetto neighborhood, you can literally get killed for that. Being tall is generally advantageous, but it makes it a nightmare for me to find clothes that fit. Males are generally considered to have privilege, even though male suicide rates and workplace fatalitie rates are far higher for them than for women.

Can you recognize these differences in situation or do you view privilege as some monolythic, adamant concept?

As far as thin privilege goes, I have a friend who's one of those people who can't put on weight no matter how much she eats. She regularly gets told to eat a damn cheesburger or accused of being anorexic. I guess that's all part of thin privilege too, isn't it?

I completely agree that discrimination and unfortunate situations are not in anyway restricted to less privileged groups, and I never intended to say that - Yes, maybe a white living in a black neighborhood will have a hard time, maybe being tall has disadvantages, and all of that, however situations like that do not change the fact that white people objectively possess higher social and political power, as well as economical, as it can be demonstrated by how many occupy politic, CEO's, media companies and other great enterprises offices - The fact that being white can have disadvantages doesn't mean discriminating against other people is acceptable. Whites can de discriminated, they can't be oppressed because other groups who might do that do not possess significant control over society, the economy or means of production...

By the way, thin privilege is associated with an average weight, not underweight. The difference is that being anorexic is perceived by others trough pity, like poor person, she really needs to eat, she's really skinny while being fat regardless of the cause is considered by many to be just laziness.

To make a more easier and simple definition or privilege - It's when you get benefits or advantages without having to do anything about it due to factors you have no control over.

I'm saying this as a white, straight male and I know it would be completely idiotic to say my life is hard compared to black people, or some females, or gays - I would not choose to be any other person because I'll freely admit I enjoy having it the easy way.

I'll also say racism per se will always exist - Racism is not the problem, the problem is when people who possess power are racist - If people from all races possessed political power and were racist at the same time, we could have a system of checks and balances, but we don't

[Jackalope]

however situations like that do not change the fact that white people objectively possess higher social and political power, as well as economical, as it can be demonstrated by how many occupy politic, CEO's, media companies and other great enterprises offices

Is that really objective fact? What "higher social and political power" do I possess? I don't even have *representation* for my social and political views from the elected officials that represent me.

[Dystopia]

Since privelge is how society treats you, no. You cannot change the fact that you are white, straight, cis male, and you cannot stop people treating you accordingly. The only thing you can do is apologise for factors outside of your control. Not only is that useless and pointless, it's not fair.

Apologise for what? So are you advocating that it's not fair for people to be treated equally regardless of skin colour? Are you saying we shouldn't fight against racism, homophobia or sexism/misogyny? Privilege is not how society treats you, it's when you are treated positively because of factors that you didn't contribute to and that have little to no relevance to the treatment you receive

No. Where did you get that from?

You're saying blacks should be more careful just because they were born black. You're saying they should be afraid instead of fighting against stereotypes.

I said that black people are fully aware that they are discriminated against, particularly by the police. And that they shouldn't give the police any reason to come after them. They should be extra careful because they know that they will be targeted. And yet the black community of Ferguson, rioted and looted over the 'unjust' shooting of Brown because they believed it was caused by racism and discrimination. And yet they perpetuate the very stereotype that causes racist police officers to target black people by looting. They are hurting themseleves because of their delusions of constant victim hood, everything is the fault of the white man, no responsibilty is taken for their own actions. All this because they believe so entirely that white people are priveliged.

Not victimhood, it's frustration - How would you react if a member of your community was killed without reason? And why does that single situation prove anything at all? It's not about being the victim, it's because you are saying blacks need to be extra careful just because they are black - They don't, they need to be as careful as whites, latinos or asians, they should be treated equally, you are saying that because you're white (probably) and you've never experienced being constantly discriminated directly or indirectly because of your skin colour. Accepting discrimination is not the issue - Protests and demonstrations/riots like those are perpetuated by people everywhere around the world, why is a riot by blacks suddenly so important after, let's say, so many Greeks got into riots to protest against the government (they're mostly white)?

This is not, I repeat, about being a victim, this is about fighting against stereotypes and proving they are not an adequate mean of judging an entire group. Conforming to the problem is the best solution to not solve it.

---

however situations like that do not change the fact that white people objectively possess higher social and political power, as well as economical, as it can be demonstrated by how many occupy politic, CEO's, media companies and other great enterprises offices

Is that really objective fact? What "higher social and political power" do I possess? I don't even have *representation* for my social and political views from the elected officials that represent me.

Read some of the privileges I mentioned in being white to understand advantages you, I and many others will get. I'll start by saying I'm happy cops aren't always staring at me when I'm just walking randomly trough the street .

How many politicians in your state are white? How frequently are people of colour arrested compared to white people and get harsher sentences for the same crime?

This is not a rant against whites, I'm white myself and I'm fine with being white as I've already said, I don't want whites to be discriminated against, I just want them to understand that life can be much easier.

The white privileges I wrote apply to me directly or indirectly, and I've benefited from them all

[Jackalope]

[quote='Cthulhu Dreaming' pid='830035' dateline='1419727024']

Is that really objective fact? What "higher social and political power" do I possess? I don't even have *representation* for my social and political views from the elected officials that represent me.

Read some of the privileges I mentioned in being white to understand advantages you, I and many others will get. I'll start by saying I'm happy cops aren't always staring at me when I'm just walking randomly trough the street .

I get plenty of askance looks from cops. I'm a long-haired rough-looking guy, despite the fact that I'm actually a big teddy bear. There's a whole lot more to it than skin color.

How many politicians in your state are white?

Plenty. Does their being white mean that they represent my political views? That would come as a surprise to them, as locally, my elected officials are largely conservative, Republican, Tea Partiers.

My point is this: I don't wield any great social or political power. I recognize that there are groups who wield less. My goal is to bring people up and treat all equally. What I won't do is apologize for being born white and male, nor will I accept any blame for how others treat me. That's their problem, not mine.

[Dystopia]

I wasn't advocating that you apologise or any of that - My goal is the same as yours - Equality - The fact your political views are not represented is not the only determining factor, because that's a personal preference, it's not something you are born with like ethnicity.

[Jackalope]

I wasn't advocating that you apologise or any of that - My goal is the same as yours - Equality - The fact your political views are not represented is not the only determining factor, because that's a personal preference, it's not something you are born with like ethnicity.

Right. And you somehow think I have more political power due to the color of my skin, despite the fact that I'm represented by people who don't support my political views - the same as people who don't happen to share skin color with me?

There's a hell of a lot more to it than skin color, and the fact that some people can't seem to move past that is a large part of the problem.

[Creed of Heresy]

I think the modern refusal to acknowledge privilege has nothing to do with racism as much as many people seem to think. It comes from guilt. Human beings are surprisingly not too keen on the things that really matter to them coming easy or with reduced [or missing] meaning. To be reminded you had a handicap in your favor diminishes one's pride; their achievements were accomplished on the "easy" difficulty setting and they were never allowed to change the settings.

Lotta people jump on the bandwagon of vilifying racism. Good. But lotta people jump onto it too hard. And in this day and age, "privilege" is analogous to having things easier. Ours is rapidly becoming a society in which things coming easy to you is a sign of inferiority and weakness. As it should always have been, really. But it's also a society that takes that viewpoint a little too far. There is no shame in being born as a straight white lean-bodied attractive male. It means there are things you don't have to worry about. Don't stress over it; if it bothers you at all, then just endeavor to treat everyone else as equals and to work against the difficulties experienced by the social handicaps others struggle with.

Best way to help kill a social problem is by not joining in with it.

[TaraJo]

I'm saying this as a white, straight male and I know it would be completely idiotic to say my life is hard compared to black people,

Lemme tell you a story then. Hell, I got a couple of them now.

Me and my family, we're all white as could be. My dad, though, was raised in a ghetto on the west side of Chicago. His was the only family in a predominantly black neighborhood during the civil rights era. His neighbors had little love for white people, with him often being chased and assaulted for little more than his skin color. Some of them even trained their dogs to attack white people, which resulted in my dad having to run for his life from them.

As for me, I'm white but I live in a neighborhood that's predominantly hispanic. My story isn't as difficult as that of my father, but it's not at all uncommon that I'm unable to communicate at all with my neighbors because I don't speak Spanish and they don't speak English.

Not, if either one of us looked at our situation and said "Gee, things would be easier if I belonged to the same racial group as my neighbors," would that be understandable or would it be "idiotic?"

or some females,

Pre-transiton, I had to deal with the family courts. I had enough money deducted from my paychecks for child support that I wasn't able to pay my own basic bills like rent. I've heard a lot of other stories like that from men who have to deal with family courts. It wasn't made any better from the lack of significant social services for men; there were usually several homeless programs or shelters that were exclusive to women while only a handful would let men in and they were usually the dirtiest, dingiest ones out there.

So, would you still tell this guy, beaten and broken, how much privilege he has over women or would you actually sympathize with his situation and say that, yeah, the system sometimes screws men over while giving women a free pass?

I would not choose to be any other person because I'll freely admit I enjoy having it the easy way.

I enjoy the easy life, too, but I'm far less interested in group dynamics than I am in individual situations. Unless you want to try to account for every possible variable, but if you go and account for that much, you might as well just be judging them as individuals insead of as part of a group.

[ManMachine]

This is just meant to demonstrate how social oppression, prejudice, discrimination and power still exist.

When did it ever not exist?

MM