My privilege as a straight, white, cisgender, middle class thin male

[Dystopia]

TaraJo, courts are gender biased, however I see that practice as sexist as it can be because it is based on the assumption that women are weaker and less capable - The fact women get their kids more often, child support and social services may be a direct benefit but it shows the social mentality that women are meant to be mothers and are fragile/need help - By these reasons I consider that even if that makes it easier for women, it is still sexist - To be pro-equality means giving up on every group's privileges and that includes women, not only men...

I have no doubt that in those specific situations it would be much easier to be a part of other ethnic or linguistic group - However those cases, considering the fact that the majority of western population is white american or white European, depending on the country of course, doesn't change the fact that if you're white you'll most likely have it easier.

Also, if you read all of my post, you'll see that I mentioned I'm middle class, which would translate into not living in a poor urban area

I get it that everyone can be racist or a target of racism - that's not something I'm trying to deny, nor it is my point. I'm also not making this about skin colour exclusively, it's just the current point we are discussing, there are so many factors and characteristics I didn't mention because my lists were not exhaustive.

And let's not forget not every country is populated by enough latinos, hyspanics or blacks to create segregated neighborhoods.

[TaraJo]

TaraJo, courts are gender biased, however I see that practice as sexist as it can be because it is based on the assumption that women are weaker and less capable - The fact women get their kids more often, child support and social services may be a direct benefit but it shows the social mentality that women are meant to be mothers and are fragile/need help

I'm not disagreeing with you on this part, but when you get someone like me who has experienced this very real problem and you say things like this, it honestly sounds like you're telling me that my problems aren't as significant as those of my ex. It's incredibly dismissive and hurtful. I'll be honest, my experiences with the family courts are the most painful experiece of my life and it's clearly sexist. Yet, I routinely get those experiences brushed away in environments that talk about privilege all the time, some with outright hostility.

- By these reasons I consider that even if that makes it easier for women, it is still sexist - To be pro-equality means giving up on every group's privileges and that includes women, not only men...

Yes, and that's kinda my point: if one group has advantages in most areas, that doesn't justify dismissing the areas where they don't have advantages. It also doesn't justify baseless hostility towards them because of their privilege, yet I've seen a lot of that (although, to give you credit, I haven't seen you do that).

I have no doubt that in those specific situations it would be much easier to be a part of other ethnic or linguistic group - However those cases, considering the fact that the majority of western population is white american or white European, depending on the country of course, doesn't change the fact that if you're white you'll most likely have it easier.

[Bad Wolf]

Apologise for what?

The only reason that the concept of privalige is brought up in debates, conversations or arguments is to make the other person feel guilty. Someone who does not recognise the underhanded tactic that this is, will feel guilty and feel the need to apologise for being white, or being straight, or being middle class.

Are you saying we shouldn't fight against racism, homophobia or sexism/misogyny?

No. You need to stop trying to put words in my mouth.

Privilege is not how society treats you, it's when you are treated positively because of factors that you didn't contribute to and that have little to no relevance to the treatment you receive

Treatment by? Oh that's right: society.

You're saying blacks should be more careful just because they were born black.

Yes. As I have already explained twice now I think, black people are targeted more frequently by the police and are often met with extreme and unneccessary shows of force. Black people are aware of this discrimination. This is just how the world works. Now lets use an example since you don't seem to understand this. If my boss didn't like me, and was looking for any reason to fire me (the smallest reason at all, maybe being late for work), assuming I enjoy my job, I would arrive at work 15 minutes before I need to be there, I would work extra hard as to not give my boss any excuse to fire me. Black people are aware that the police are looking for any excuses to arrest them or harras them, they should therefore alter their behaviour as to not even give the police a whif. I know it's not fair, but that's the way it is.

You're saying they should be afraid

No, i'm saying they should be smart.

instead of fighting against stereotypes.

No. Where the hell did you get this from? At what point did I indicate that they shouldn't fight against stereotypes?

Not victimhood, it's frustration

Rubbish, you need to watch the interviews of rioters in Ferguson. They quite literally say they don't trust white people.

- How would you react if a member of your community was killed without reason?

I wouldn't start a riot and loot and damage my own town.

And why does that single situation prove anything at all? It's not about being the victim, it's because you are saying blacks need to be extra careful just because they are black - They don't, they need to be as careful as whites, latinos or asians, they should be treated equally,

They should be treated equally but they aren't. Because of the very real discrimination against them. I'm sorry but it's like you're denying that they are discriminated against? The only way that discrimination against them is going to stop, is if they stop backing up racist and prejudice viewpoints by commiting crimes.

you are saying that because you're white (probably) and you've never experienced being constantly discriminated directly or indirectly because of your skin colour.

Oh look, I can't understand something or i'm wrong because i'm white. I think you spend too much time on tumblr.

Accepting discrimination is not the issue - Protests and demonstrations/riots like those are perpetuated by people everywhere around the world, why is a riot by blacks suddenly so important after, let's say, so many Greeks got into riots to protest against the government (they're mostly white)?

Seriously? How can you even compare the two? Ferguson rioted because Micheal Brown (a theif) was killed by a white police officer. They think it was because the cop was racist. Something that there is very little proof of. They reacted by following in Browns footsteps and robbing local businesses.

The Greeks protested and rioted because of the plan to cut public spending and raise taxes in exchange for a bail out of the Greek debt crisis.

A bit different than an unconfirmed piece of racial discrimination.

This is not, I repeat, about being a victim, this is about fighting against stereotypes and proving they are not an adequate mean of judging an entire group. Conforming to the problem is the best solution to not solve it.

And that is exactly what Ferguson did, they conformed to the problem of black stereotypes and doing exactly what prejudiced cops expected them to do: commit crimes.

I don't know how else I can word it for you. If you're black, don't drive around with weed in your pocket, if you get caught, you are just confirming the cops preconcieved prejudices. Don't join a gang, don't sell drugs, don't walk around with weapons. It's that simple. It's not fair but that's the way it works. Racists will overlook and ignore any evidence that doesn't match to their pre-conceieved ideas about black people but will take very seriously any evidence that agrees with their ideas. That's just the way it is.

[Dystopia]

I'm not disagreeing with you on this part, but when you get someone like me who has experienced this very real problem and you say things like this, it honestly sounds like you're telling me that my problems aren't as significant as those of my ex. It's incredibly dismissive and hurtful. I'll be honest, my experiences with the family courts are the most painful experiece of my life and it's clearly sexist. Yet, I routinely get those experiences brushed away in environments that talk about privilege all the time, some with outright hostility.

I didn't mean to tell you your problems aren't significant - They are - As a male who respects a lot of views feminists have, I've also acknowledged rational feminists are vehemently against women having privileges such as court gender bias or simple stuff like getting their dinners paid by men, and this is the way it should work anyway - If someone wants to end privilege, you need to end privilege for both sides, and that's why I'm also against affirmative action.

For someone lazy like me to write such a long thread it means I gave it some thought and critical thinking - I put myself into my position and in the position of other groups - Always aiming at the general rule and not the exceptions - There are very successful people/celebrities who are not white, straight, cisgender, male and so on... I'm using as a model the average person in society and not exceptions to the rule - And I've concluded that characteristics I was born with (except maybe the thin part) have given me advantages - Denying that would be unreasonable. It's not all white straight males are oppressors, most are good people with good intentions - I'm a white male myself as I've stated, it would be idiotic to make a racist statement against my own ethnicity. Me having an anti-racist or anti-discrimination position doesn't equate with being anti-men or anti-white or anti-straight, that's exactly what people who, for instance, hate on gays say - That fighting for equal rights is oppressive when it is not, it's not anti-straight, it's just pro-equality.

Cthulu Dreaming - You not having your political ideas represented is something that is prone to change with time, sometimes your party will win, other times it will not, that's just life - I'm not being anti-white, or anti-male, or anti-straight, just anti-prejudice and anti-discrimination - If your political party is not represented in the parliament, that's because society didn't vote for it, and that's completely different from people not liking you just because you have a characteristic that has been there since you were born... And of course this is merely the matter at hand, there are so many issues other than race, or gender, or sexual orientation, I was just using common well known examples, I never said this was only about skin colour, it isn't.

[paulpablo]

In addition to what I already wrote,

On being male
1) I can't count the times I've not been able to find something or I've been distracted or just done something stupid and then been told it's because I'm male, by women.

2) Men are portrayed as sex objects in the media constantly, women aren't always portrayed as weak useless and annoying.

3)passive, submissive, docile and caring traits aren't by definition inferior and they are attributed to women because women usually are less aggressive than men.

4) Maybe it's just where I live, but a man who wears low cut tops and tight tight shorts is ten times more likely to be made fun of, mocked and shamed, than a woman who does the exact same thing.

5) Society doesn't encourage males to compete against each other fiercely? No idea where you got that idea from.
The male stereotype as you stated earlier is aggressive and competitive. In the gym, in the work place, in night clubs, in science, exploration, business, it's full of men judging each other, and biter rivalry. I'm not saying women don't do this, but to say women do these things, or are encouraged to do these things more than men is ridiculous.

5) You are forced into a culture that places a high value on physical appearance, maybe it's less than women are but it's still there.

6) There are lots of jokes that stereotype men.

[Dystopia]

1) I can't count the times I've not been able to find something or I've been distracted or just done something stupid and then been told it's because I'm male, by women.

Yes but most of those jokes don't involve rape jokes or jokes that tell you how slutty you are, and even if they are offensive most people, including men and other women, don't take them seriously while some jokes about females are literally taken serious by people - Such as the joke that women are really crazy or mentally unstable and never know what they want, a lot of people mainly men believe this but there's no evidence that women don't know what they want any more than men

2) Men are portrayed as sex objects in the media constantly, women aren't always portrayed as weak useless and annoying.

Really? That's why more than 90% of sexual objectification is directed towards females. Showing up naked or half naked doesn't equal sex objectification, you should read the definition to understand that there is a difference between showing your sexuality and being a sex object, one doesn't need the other but sometimes both happen. Why are boobs used to sell everything but not men's assess or chest? Why are men always shown a full picture with the whole body and not with emphasis on boobs or ass? Before answering this point, why don't you take a look at Caroline's speech and realize how wrong you were?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMS4VJKekW8

3)passive, submissive, docile and caring traits aren't by definition inferior and they are attributed to women because women usually are less aggressive than men.

I've met a couple of females who'd disagree with you - And even if that were true it's still a gender role attribution that puts people into boxes and limits their options. Have you ever thought that maybe females are less aggressive because society tells them from the start that being aggressive is a boy's thing? And have you ever wondered why men aren't supposed to express their feelings or cry although we have deep emotions as well?

4) Maybe it's just where I live, but a man who wears low cut tops and tight tight shorts is ten times more likely to be made fun of, mocked and shamed, than a woman who does the exact same thing.

But that's because that's associated with homosexuality and gay get mocked more often that women

The male stereotype as you stated earlier is aggressive and competitive. In the gym, in the work place, in night clubs, in science, exploration, business, it's full of men judging each other, and biter rivalry. I'm not saying women don't do this, but to say women do these things, or are encouraged to do these things more than men is ridiculous.

It's nowhere near comparable, men compete with everyone, male, female or trans, for success - But men don't slut shame each other and say oh that friend of mine (male) sleeps with so many women he is such a slut. Women are indirectly told by the media that every other is their competition usually when the beauty standard is high and everyone has to reach it-

You are forced into a culture that places a high value on physical appearance, maybe it's less than women are but it's still there.

It's nothing compared, I can dress in the morning and take 5 minutes, I'm not socially forced to wear a little of makeup, or to shave my armpits even if my hair is not noticeable, I'm not constantly judged by other men if I'm ugly and I don't have the media constantly throwing me out a beauty standard of a very perfect male for me to follow, since men in the media and forms of art have different kinds of bodies. If I look into a women's magazine I'll see a tremendous difference between it and a men's magazine - In fact men don't care about magazines that much.

6) There are lots of jokes that stereotype men.

True, but people don't take them seriously - The point is that many jokes have harmful stereotypes - Jokes about men can be offensive but they can't be harmful because men still hold far more social power than women, while jokes about women, specially rape jokes and others can promote a culture of sexual inequality. Why do you think some people really believe that if the other part is passed out it's ok to have sex with then?

[Vosur]

Uh-oh, tumblr is leaking again. :-/

[Dystopia]

Uh-oh, tumblr is leaking again.

WTF is tumblr related to?

[TaraJo]

Uh-oh, tumblr is leaking again.

WTF is tumblr related to?

Tumblr is to legitimate social justice what Westboro Baptist Church is to Christianity: the extremists that make everyone else look bad. Both are fun to laugh at, though.

[Exian]

The clothing industry caters less to any one type of body size now, than it ever has at any point in history before this Wal-mart era. Before WWII, it didn't matter what size or proportion you were, your clothes were literally tailored to your body. It was the only way.

Finding clothes your size is extremely difficult no matter your size. Off the rack clothes are made with so much wiggle room, and with no set standard size, that they'll at least get on your body, but no promise is made towards looking good or feeling right. I don't think clothing size options are as much the problem, as its just pretty hard to even tailor clothes to the body. That's why it's an art and a craft.

I would be happy to see people invest in quality clothing that fits their body and last for generations, and get rid of this throw away crap they sell now. We're too used to it now.

Ha I've added nothing. My point is I don't think thin privilege even registers as far as what's offered for clothing to fit different body types.