Why so many "anti-feminists" in the atheist community?

[TheRocketSurgeon]

As far as a definition of feminism, well it depends on what you are trying to define about it. Some quotes from those who've tried:

Feminism is the advocacy of women's rights based on the equality of the sexes.  - Oxford Dictionary 

Feminism is the radical notion that women are people. - Marie Shear 

I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or prostitute. - Dame Rebecca West

Its agenda is basic: It asks that women not be forced to "choose" between public justice and private happiness. It asks that women be free to define themselves-- instead of having their identity defined for them, time and time again, by their culture and their men. - Susan Faludi 

At is core, feminism is a multi-issue movement committed to extremely long-term goals: the ending of patriarchy; the achievement of economic, political, and social equality for all women; and the creation of a world free from sexism, racism, homophobia, classism, ageism, ableism, violence, and environmental exploitation. - Eleanor Smeal

[Thumpalumpacus]

The only advantage I've seen that men do not possess in our society is regarding child custody in the event of divorce; women most often are awarded custody.

I have never been oppressed by any women's group ... but I sure do love slapping a feminist around, it's fucking hot.

[DespondentFishdeathMasochismo]

TheRocketSurgeonHoly crap, what did I miss?

I'm a "man-hating feminist", I suppose, by your definitions. I recognize the immeasurable privileges I hold in this society by being a white male. I recognize the Patriarchy that has made our culture the way it is. Patriarchal values have destroyed countless lives and continue to do so, and they affect us in subtle ways in almost every exchange we have in this society.

Yes, men have to deal with some things that are difficult, even the occasional double standards, but the worst we will ever go through pales in comparison to every day of the life of women in our supposedly-enlightened society.

Alright. You're setting us up to lay out the argument. No points made yet, but I'm holding out.

While nobody questions that there are feminist extremists who take the concept too far, it's insane to try to equate the far fringe with the common views of the overall movement. It's why I am a male and am proud to call myself a feminist. The idea that trying to root out wrongs that have been perpetrated against women for so long that most men never even notice it's happening or think there's anything wrong with how we are socialized to treat women, for trying to ensure that the business world does not discriminate against women just because it has been a "boys club" for centuries, for trying to attack our "rape culture" in which men feel entitled to the bodies of women they like, and for trying to stem the overwhelming tide of domestic abuse and intimidation that marks the lives of women everywhere, equals "oppression" or hatred of men is beyond ludicrous.`

. Okay, now we're getting into a bunch of meaningless buzz words. "rape culture". "Patriarchy". Yes, domestic abuse and rape is wrong, but the people doing it know it's wrong. They just choose to partake in rape anyways, because it's probably fun to them or something. There's not really anything you can do to change that, in my opinion. Evidently this is somehow ingrained in our society. Show me the facts of how rape has become a part of our culture. I don't buy the premise of the argument, but let's see what you have to say next.

The data are clear: if the nation does not take legal action to protect women from discrimination, they will be routinely discriminated against, based on a long social tradition that has oppressed and used them throughout most of our culture's history.

Being skeptics, we are free to question any or all aspects of feminism... but when you start whining about oh poor men we're so oppressed, you lose me. It simply is not borne out by any significant studies of the subject, and a few anecdotes here and there do not change the overwhelmingly one-sided data that shows we have a long way to go before we have a society in which I would feel proud to tell my daughter (I don't know yet, but have hope my baby due in late January is female) she will be growing up. Until then I fight to fix it. And I tell guys who want to whine about feminism and speak about egalitarianism that feminism is egalitarianism. There's no difference, except in the minds of a few radical proponents of matriarchy (something I doubt strongly would be any better than what it purports to replace), between feminism and egalitarianism... but the fact that you think there is only shows that the feminists' fight is not even close to being completed.

I'm not saying men are oppressed. I'm saying it's ridiculous to look at this as a women's issue. It's not. Women actually have it better in america than men do. I have heard facts about the issue that contradict what you're saying. Everything you're saying has seemed like nothing but propaganda to me.

Feminism is not egalitarianism. That is categorically false. Egalitarianism is egalitarianism. Feminism is women's rights, which is now wrongfully biased towards men. This isn't the same as black lives matter, you can't equate something like all lives matter to egalitarianism, which I know is parallel to how you see egalitarianism. 

There's a lot of problems in the world, but from what I've seen, you have a skewed perspective of things. You say that there's a rape culture, there's a patriarchy which is just oppressing women, because of centuries traditions. That's probably true in some other country, I dunno where you live, but I have seen no evidence that proves that's what it's like in America.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Are you seriously saying you want me to give you an internet course in the ongoing history of how we treat women in society, before you will "see" it?

Get the fuck outta here with that shit.

We can talk here in an internet forum about a complex subject when you have read even the basics, which it is clear from your language you have not, starting with books like Against Our Will by Susan Brownmiller, The Feminine Mystique by Betty Friedan, and Herstory (it's a collection of articles/essays, with an excellent intro by Gloria Steinem)... if you want something more modern, try Men Explain Things to Me by Rebecca Solnit or Feminism is for Everybody by Bell Hooks.

After you've done some reading (you need not follow my suggestions; they're just the ones that came immediately to mind out of dozens) to understand why a man saying "Where's the problem? I don't see it" IS EXACTLY THE FUCKING PROBLEM, then we can start having this conversation. Not before.

[DespondentFishdeathMasochismo]

Ya know, when I think about it, all lives is comparable to egalitarianism. Black people and white people get killed by police, yet black people make it out to be an all black person issue. I've even heard that more white people get killed by cop per year than minorities. That's just a matter of making white people to be a big problem in today's society, the way that feminists make men out to be a big issue in today's society.

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Are you seriously saying you want me to give you an internet course in the ongoing history of how we treat women in society, before you will "see" it?

Get the fuck outta here with that shit.

We can talk here in an internet forum about a complex subject when you have read even the basics, which it is clear from your language you have not, starting with books like Against Our Will by Susan Brownmiller, The Feminine Mystique by Betty Friedan, and Herstory (it's a collection of articles/essays, with an excellent intro by Gloria Steinem)... if you want something more modern, try Men Explain Things to Me by Rebecca Solnit or Feminism is for Everybody by Bell Hooks.

After you've done some reading (you need not follow my suggestions; they're just the ones that came immediately to mind out of dozens) to understand why a man saying "Where's the problem? I don't see it" IS EXACTLY THE FUCKING PROBLEM, then we can start having this conversation. Not before.

So you're saying I should go read some biased propaganda indoctrination so your points will stand? No thanks.

[Longhorn]

This is much less fun that it was .-.

[Mermaid]

What is "fat pride"?

Look, I don't believe I have much credibility to you, seeing as you completely disagree with me on feminism to begin with.

Did I say any of that?

[Mermaid]

What is "fat pride"?

Look, I don't believe I have much credibility to you, seeing as you completely disagree with me on feminism to begin with. So I'll just wing it. Fat pride is a movement that says thin models are an oppressive form of beauty, which is propagated by the "patriarchy" aka male dominated society. So in turn, people have turned to saying that fat is beautiful, resulting in many a ugly picture of horribly unattractive, obese women taking selfies of themselves saying things like "healthy at any size". So if you don't mind me being very blunt, it's some people who are very sad that society doesn't find them attractive. So instead of trying to work out and make themselves thinner, they would rather say that the beauty industry is the problem, try to get fashion industries to have extra large female models. It also perpetuates the misnomer that being fat is perfectly healthy, when what these people actually have is a medical condition. I hope that explains it well.

So wait. Let me see if I am understanding this right:
Women are fat. They are considered unattractive because of the patriarchy, and post horrible ugly pictures which bothers you. So they should work out more so they are more attractive to you!

I see.

[Edwardo Piet]

Feminism at its core is merely egalitarianism and is no more anti-men than it is anti-women or anti anything else. It is woman-focused because of the long history of misogyny, sexism, general mistreatment and patriarchal bullshit that women have had to deal with especially so in the past, but still to this day. If it had been the other way around and men had been the more oppressed sex throughout history then we'd probably have a masculinist movement and some people would be saying it was anti-women even if it were only a minority of that movement that was.

Feminism is no more anti-men than standing up for the rights of racial minorities is anti-white, or standing up for the rights of LGBT is anti-hetrerosexual.

I'm absolutely a feminist, a masculinist and an egalitarian and the one thing I am anti is anti-bigotry. And that's just another reason why the abrahamic religons in particular suck ass, they're full of bigotry. But bigotry is by no means exclusive to religion and if there was one thing I am anti it is indeed anti-bigotry. I mean I'm anti-dogma and anti-pseudoscience but those are more things that just lead to bigotry. I am pro-reason and pro-science and one of the greatest things about science and reason is that they basically BFG blast the fuck out of bigotry.

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For those unfamiliar with Doom but familiar with Roald Dahl, when I say "BFG" no I don't mean Big Friendly Giant, I mean this:



Big Fucking Gun

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[Edwardo Piet]

And again, what's with people wanting to win people to Atheism.

Well I think the world would be a better place with more atheists, sure there are plenty of harmless theists but there are plenty of harmful ones because religion is bullshit and harmful bullshit at that: And sometimes the religious moderates give cover to the extremists by encouraging everyone to pussyfoot around the subject of religion. It needs to be talked about like any other subject and shouldn't be any more free from ridicule than any other subject.

I gave up trying to deconvert people ages ago. Losing or gaining beliefs doesn't work like that I've come to realize: When people finally do change their minds about something they want to believe it was their own idea. I've never known anyone converted to anything or deconverted from anything from a debate.

I would never force my non-belief down someone's throat that would be hypocritical, but in the past if I was ever able to deconvert a theist by debating them then yes I do believe that would have been a good thing: The more reality the better. The less bullshit the better. 

But I gave up debating like that a long time ago. Too frustrating, futile, hopeless and I have other things on my mind.