reasons to believe, there is no God

[Violet]

Thanks Saerules, you just confirmed half my hypothesis. "Tell that to any 16 year old and they will agree with you".

We'll talk about this again in 5 years time.

No respectable hypothesis declares itself confirmed after only the second positive result.

And I also disagree that you can tell that to any 16 year old and they will agree with you.

I know an 18 year old dog that would hardly understand... let alone agree... with the proposition.

It's also almost certain that there must be some 16 year old humans (probably religious or not raised in a modern society, mind) who disagree with the idea that age ≠ wisdom.

Further... the fact that 16 year olds might agree with it doesn't decrease the strength of the argument. I already presented my stance on the argument... if you had it in your head to debate it

[Tiberius]

No respectable hypothesis declares itself confirmed after only the second positive result.

My sample set was much larger than that. 16 year olds have been telling me it for years, my friends and I used to say such nonsense when we were 16. Your further agreement with it only strengthens the hypothesis.

And I also disagree that you can tell that to any 16 year old and they will agree with you.

I know an 18 year old dog that would hardly understand... let alone agree... with the proposition.

So your second attempt is to induce bad logic, a red herring, by insinuating that I didn't mean humans when it was taken as a given that I did, seeing as I referenced humans repeatedly in my original statement.

It's also almost certain that there must be some 16 year old humans (probably religious or not raised in a modern society, mind) who disagree with the idea that age ≠ wisdom.

Go ahead then, find them and I'll change my hypothesis to "most 16 year olds".

Further... the fact that 16 year olds might agree with it doesn't decrease the strength of the argument. I already presented my stance on the argument... if you had it in your head to debate it

It does when you take into account arrogance as a phase 16 year olds seem to suffer from, coupled with the fact that these same people, when matured, disagree with their previous stances.

[Thor]

For some "goddidit" is a good enough answer for anything. To me it's a quick and lazy way to answer something.
I'll go for science over religion any day. At least science gives you data to work with. Something to examine and test yourself. Religion just says "god did it" and "don't question it or go to hell". "Must have faith or your in denial" or "your evil". For me, if you haven't any evidence, no data and nothing to examine then you've got nothing to show me. No evidence/No data = No case.

This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes (although I don't know who said it).

"Science has questions that may never be answered. Religion has answers that may never be questioned."

[Ace Otana]

For some "goddidit" is a good enough answer for anything. To me it's a quick and lazy way to answer something.
I'll go for science over religion any day. At least science gives you data to work with. Something to examine and test yourself. Religion just says "god did it" and "don't question it or go to hell". "Must have faith or your in denial" or "your evil". For me, if you haven't any evidence, no data and nothing to examine then you've got nothing to show me. No evidence/No data = No case.

This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes (although I don't know who said it).

"Science has questions that may never be answered. Religion has answers that may never be questioned."

So true. Religion answers everything. Apparently religion has it all figured out. That is why religion is so unrealistic. Religion has answered everything but demands that no one can question it. Also it never admits to not knowing something. At least with science it actually admits to not knowing something and never jumps to conclusions based on personal beliefs. Religion was wrong about burning women at stakes because lightning kept striking churches. They knew NOTHING about lightning. Religion was wrong about the planet being round and the centre of everything. Religion knew NOTHING about that too.

So here comes the quote - "Religion knows as much as the population does".

Religion tells you what to believe. Science tells you what it's found.

[Thor]

So true. Religion answers everything. Apparently religion has it all figured out. That is why religion is so unrealistic. Religion has answered everything but demands that no one can question it. Also it never admits to not knowing something. At least with science it actually admits to not knowing something and never jumps to conclusions based on personal beliefs. Religion was wrong about burning women at stakes because lightning kept striking churches. They knew NOTHING about lightning. Religion was wrong about the planet being round and the centre of everything. Religion knew NOTHING about that too.

So here comes the quote - "Religion knows as much as the population does".

Religion tells you what to believe. Science tells you what it's found.

Religion doesn't know much of anything when it comes to science. In fact, throughout history religion has been an impediment to scientific advancement. Just ask Galileo. What's really criminal is that it took the Catholic Church nearly 360 years to officially clear Galileo's name!

[Ace Otana]

Religion doesn't know much of anything when it comes to science. In fact, throughout history religion has been an impediment to scientific advancement. Just ask Galileo. What's really criminal is that it took the Catholic Church nearly 360 years to officially clear Galileo's name!

Religion doesn't like anything or anyone who might just contradict it's belief system. It's their way or go to hell. It's that arrogant and ignorant attitude that will be it's un-doing. It refuses to accept new ideas that does not follow any belief system that actually contradicts current belief systems.

I think the amount of time it took religion to accept Galileo's works and findings took as long as it did because religion finds it rather difficult and embarrasing to admit that it was wrong. The very religion that believed it had it all figured out who has just been proved wrong is a huge embarrasing fall from credibility and respect. One could say they spolit themselves silly with their own belief that they are always right...until a clever thinker came out and proved just how wrong they are. Personal beliefs does not equal truth or fact. It could easily be contradicted in the future. I think it's sad how religion takes so long to accept ideas that contradicts some of it's beliefs. It's criminal. Religion is in denial not the other way round.

[Thor]

Religion doesn't like anything or anyone who might just contradict it's belief system. It's their way or go to hell. It's that arrogant and ignorant attitude that will be it's un-doing. It refuses to accept new ideas that does not follow any belief system that actually contradicts current belief systems.

I think the amount of time it took religion to accept Galileo's works and findings took as long as it did because religion finds it rather difficult and embarrasing to admit that it was wrong. The very religion that believed it had it all figured out who has just been proved wrong is a huge embarrasing fall from credibility and respect. One could say they spolit themselves silly with their own belief that they are always right...until a clever thinker came out and proved just how wrong they are. Personal beliefs does not equal truth or fact. It could easily be contradicted in the future. I think it's sad how religion takes so long to accept ideas that contradicts some of it's beliefs. It's criminal. Religion is in denial not the other way round.

Since the church was so obviously wrong regarding their contention of an Earth-centered universe, why should we believe anything they say? They believed witches existed. They believed "God" caused outbreaks of disease as punishment. They have been so consistently wrong that there is no reason to trust their word about anything. The problem is that people have this dreck pounded into their heads from a very young age. There is also tremendous pressure on the kids to believe what mommy and daddy believe. Not to mention that society expects them to believe this guff. When everyone around you is of one like mind it is difficult to go against the grain. And the younger you are, the more this is true.

[Ace Otana]

Since the church was so obviously wrong regarding their contention of an Earth-centered universe, why should we believe anything they say? They believed witches existed. They believed "God" caused outbreaks of disease as punishment. They have been so consistently wrong that there is no reason to trust their word about anything. The problem is that people have this dreck pounded into their heads from a very young age. There is also tremendous pressure on the kids to believe what mommy and daddy believe. Not to mention that society expects them to believe this guff. When everyone around you is of one like mind it is difficult to go against the grain. And the younger you are, the more this is true.

Indeed. What reason is there to believe what they say? They have a large history of blood and contradictions. It wasn't religion that first explained how lighting works. It was not religion that developed better medicine. It was not religion that sent us to the moon. So far religion has only played one role. Personal belief. It is nothing more than a pile of personal beliefs that carry no weight. There is a reason why religion targets children. They are easy to fool. Easy to brainwash. Children who do not know enough of the world to think for themselves and question what they are being taught. Anyway if religion is as true as it claims to be then why doesn't it allow questioning and criticisms. Why result to empty threats like hell? If it's true then why don't they allow people to question it? Surely if it's true those who question will find out eventually.
Also one other thing. Who is harmed by disbelief? No one. So why is it needed for you to go to hell for endless immoral torture? Rules and laws only make sense when made through reason and this is far beyond reason and more deep into insanity.

[Violet]

No respectable hypothesis declares itself confirmed after only the second positive result.

My sample set was much larger than that. 16 year olds have been telling me it for years, my friends and I used to say such nonsense when we were 16. Your further agreement with it only strengthens the hypothesis.

So long as your sample set wasn't based on such a small group, that would be fine Nonsense is it though? If you seek to debate the point that age ≠ wisdom: have at ye

And I also disagree that you can tell that to any 16 year old and they will agree with you.

I know an 18 year old dog that would hardly understand... let alone agree... with the proposition.

So your second attempt is to induce bad logic, a red herring, by insinuating that I didn't mean humans when it was taken as a given that I did, seeing as I referenced humans repeatedly in my original statement.

Actually... that was a joke.

It's also almost certain that there must be some 16 year old humans (probably religious or not raised in a modern society, mind) who disagree with the idea that age ≠ wisdom.

Go ahead then, find them and I'll change my hypothesis to "most 16 year olds".

Where are the religious morons when you need them?

Further... the fact that 16 year olds might agree with it doesn't decrease the strength of the argument. I already presented my stance on the argument... if you had it in your head to debate it

It does when you take into account arrogance as a phase 16 year olds seem to suffer from, coupled with the fact that these same people, when matured, disagree with their previous stances.

People of all ages "suffer" arrogance. Not all of them mind... but I think Minimalist's picture sums up what I mean pretty clearly. If they disagree with the stance that age ≠ wisdom, then they have some serious things to learn.

I'm assuming that you disagree that age ≠ wisdom... in which case surely you have a better point than "16 year olds often agree with it at 16 and later retract it"?

[Thor]

Indeed. What reason is there to believe what they say?

And yet, these people spout their beliefs as if they are undeniable fact. They KNOW "God" exists! They KNOW he answers prayers! They KNOW Jesus will return. They KNOW heaven is waiting for them when they die.

These same dingbats also KNEW that Zeus was in the sky throwing lightning bolts. They KNEW that Apollo rode through the heavens on a chariot of fire. They KNEW that witches could cause cattle to die and crops to wither. These people would have bet their very lives that these things were true.

And they were all wrong.