Unbroken, and why I am sick of war movies.

[Brian37]

OP/ED,

No this is not about this one movie, but the long term glorification of war. One can hate the glorification of war, and still value those who protect us. War is nothing to be proud of, it is simply an unfortunate part of human existence. Just like a doctor does not like finding out his patient has cancer, or doesn't like pulling a bullet out of a body. You can value that they are around to do those things, but ethical doctors will often tell you because of some of the things humans do, they wish you would not give them work.

If we are going to make movies about war, we should not sugar coat it as all right and all wrong, even if we are on the right side of history. America has not always done the right thing. We owned slaves, we killed off Native Americans, and we held innocent Japanese in prison camps during WW2.

The war movies I can enjoy, are not the endurance crap, but the risks of compassion, like Oscar Shindler. It is easy to show the risks of the guys with guns, and that constitutes the majority of these types of movies.

Here is a guy I think deserves a movie that few outside Japan know about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiune_Sugihara

[Dystopia]

Yes I completely agree with you - I think war movies make big budgets because there is a very clear distinction between the evil and the good side (usually America V someone else) and there's lots of hardwork by soldiers, compassion, friendship and special effects with gunfights.. But I grow tired of it, I think war movies are good when they portray how war really is... Take the example of "Saving Private Ryan" - The film makes a good job at the beginning in explaining how soldiers are just numbers in war. Shindler's List is another good example, or even The Deer Hunter.

Kudos for an opinion about war movies I support.

[abaris]

The war movies I can enjoy, are not the endurance crap, but the risks of compassion, like Oscar Shindler. It is easy to show the risks of the guys with guns, and that constitutes the majority of these types of movies.

I have exactly the same problem with war movies. They show war as if it was something like John Wayne riding into the sunset. It's seldomly depicted as dirty, brutal, unjust and damaging to those on the ground. Even private Ryan, which is often claimed to show war as it really is, had this hero tag on it. Ryan doesn't give a damn about his mother having lost every other child, he doesn't give a damn about his dead brothers, he just want to continue fighting for his real family.

It's pure propaganda which is continued into documentaries. There's a striking difference between documentaries being made in the USA and in Europe. In Europe, you get no sugar coating, most of the veterans interviewed are disillusioned and never talk in funny anecdotes as the Americans often do. And this is true for German docs as well as the british of french ones. It doesn't have to do anything with winning or losing, just the mere fact, that war has ripped their lives apart and robbed them of having a fulfilling youth.

It get's even more striking when you look at shows like firepower USA. That's nothing but an advert for joining the military.

[The Grand Nudger]

Hurt Locker, Restrepo, Thin Red Line, Blackhawk Down, The Pianist, etc etc etc.

You're -supposed- to be horrified by war...that's what brings the actions of those in the narrative into stark contrast and allows you to place yourself there. To understand, in whatever way possible, the conflicting and often confusing experiences that others in that position have gone through.

If we are going to make movies about war, we should not sugar coat it as all right and all wrong, even if we are on the right side of history. America has not always done the right thing. We owned slaves, we killed off Native Americans, and we held innocent Japanese in prison camps during WW2.

Absolutely right...and yet, even as we did so and often enough by the very same people that did so....war is also a place for unexpected compassion, understanding and moments of heroism that approach the level of myth or legend. Perhaps war doesn't deserve glorification (then again...dem Nazis bro) - but those who have engaged -in it- very often deserve glory - to such an extent and so reliably (on all sides - our enemies are heroic, our enemies are capable of doing "the right thing" in a shitty situation just as well as we are - and no group of us has a record beyond reproach in that regard) that some of that is bound to bleed over into the situation that allowed them the opportunity to achieve it. If the people who have received the MOH, for example, don't deserve glory, then no one does - fuck me...glory might not even exist.....if we can't let them and what they did it for have just a little bit of it.

I guess I've never really seen any sugar coating in war movies..people are getting shot/stabbed/crushed/incinerated/choked/blown into a silky red mist, how sugary is -that-? Are these movies ever really about the glory of some war...as opposed to the glory of those who fought in it?

most of the veterans interviewed are disillusioned and never talk in funny anecdotes as the Americans often do.

Must make for shitty and depressing documentaries. I have plenty of funny anecdotes...you'll rarely hear me tell a "war story". Maybe, just maybe...soldiers use humor to cope with pain? Not sure how you could say that this doesn't have to do with winning or losing - as all of those countries you mentioned lost - alot...even the ones on the "winning" side. In contrast, Americans lost fewer and less..and...you know..we sort of won (US had a little under half a mil in WW2 compared to Germany's 4-5 mil, the Brits were getting the shit bombed out of them -at home-, France is just...France. Elephant in the room here are the Soviets, poor fuckers, 8-13mil). Now, consider the narratives told by Vietnam vets........hmn, a pattern emerges.

Yall want a good war story, stop watching movies. Try a book. Here's one of the best, IMO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Things_They_Carried

"How To Tell a True War Story"...if you never read the book..is still worth a read by itself. You can find it by itself here. Will take a few minutes.
http://cds.library.brown.edu/projects/Wr...e_war.html

How do you generalize? War is hell, but that's not the half of it, because war is mystery and terror and adventure and courage and discovery and holiness and pity and despair and longing and love. War is nasty; war is fun. War is thrilling; war is drudgery. War makes you a man; war makes you dead.

[Brian37]

I cry like a baby every time I see Shindler's list. I think there are very few civilians brave enough to do what he did. I think all of us would like to think we could do what he did, but the truth is none of us know what we would do if put in that situation.

[Zen Badger]

This is why I liked Fury. Because it didn't sugarcoat war

[Brian37]

Yes I completely agree with you - I think war movies make big budgets because there is a very clear distinction between the evil and the good side (usually America V someone else) and there's lots of hardwork by soldiers, compassion, friendship and special effects with gunfights.. But I grow tired of it, I think war movies are good when they portray how war really is... Take the example of "Saving Private Ryan" - The film makes a good job at the beginning in explaining how soldiers are just numbers in war. Shindler's List is another good example, or even The Deer Hunter.

Kudos for an opinion about war movies I support.

Wait, what? No, I think atheists should force the world to not believe and use bombs and military to make them all submit. BARBECUE KITTENS ON EVERY GRILL! WHOSE WITH ME!

[professor]

Why just war movies?
The glorification of the gun and the power of one is a constant theme in both film and TV.
You have heard it said, "What if they gave a war and no-one came?"
How about- "What if they gave a war movie and no-one came?"

[Brian37]

Why just war movies?
The glorification of the gun and the power of one is a constant theme in both film and TV.
You have heard it said, "What if they gave a war and no-one came?"
How about- "What if they gave a war movie and no-one came?"

DUH, gun huggers masturbate over gun like porn.

I think it is way past time we stop filtering out gun death pictures. Yea give a warning before you show it sure.


The victims of the Holocaust after being freed by the Allies insisted that the piles of dead bodies not be filtered out. I think gun death should be treated the same way, not to outlaw all gun ownership, but insist that if someone is that insistent on owning one, they should be required to go to a morgue and view the body of someone who died by gun, be it accident, domestic murder, suicide, crime or mass shooting.

Guns are marketed like toys and they should not be.

---

I have never seen a gun death and I hope never to. I did however have a co worker witness a suicide. She was in her late teens, had a cousin who suffered from depression, got a hold of a gun, blew his brains out in front of her in the driveway. That fucked her up mentally as it would anyone. She went from being slim to overweight, I think the trauma caused her to use food as a way to cope.

I can tell you even without gun violence, I get scared shitless when my 82 year old mother shows a slight hint of anything minor. She's been through some health problems and that even without graphic violence depresses me.

[vorlon13]

Dr. Strangelove takes a macabre look at things, and is an interesting film to compare to Fail Safe, as both movies have the same plot.

The redo of the Outer Limits in the 90s explored some ideas about war (with aliens) and how the human 'can do' spirit can be twisted and subverted.

The characters comments on Babylon 5 regarding the conclusion Earth/Minbari war are food for thought. ("no one knows who won that war")