Why we believe

[The Grand Nudger]

So you've given up god bothering on the strength of that, right?

[Nope]

I don't think God can be understood with the mind, it seems like foolishness.

God is understood with the heart (spirit).

Your heart has no cognitive function, but I can see how basic anatomy is not important to the religious. After all, who needs a theological elbow when one converses with one's arse.

"I don't think god can be understood with the intellect, it seems like foolishness. God is understood with your emotions."

I have a theory that admitting that they are religious because of emotional needs is somehow offensive to some Christians so they use the word heart instead.

[Thumpalumpacus]

It's just that some of us have a sense of wonder about the world and the universe.

Then don't look for it in a moldy old book.

Reality awaits.

Fuckin' A. God need not apply.

[Alex K]

- BAM - He shot Him down with his M31

[Simon Moon]

So why I believe- it's not because my life's empty or that I have a strange fascination with hebrew fairy tales. In fact I never knew that anyone took the entire bible literally until I looked online

So, tell us what is the algorithm you use to determine which parts should be taken literally, and which parts shouldn't.

In other words, when you come across a passage that says that a man lived in a fish for 3 days, or can cure leprosy with 2 dead birds (Leviticus 14), how do you determine those parts are not literal (if you do)? But yet the parts about a man walking on water, rising from the dead, being born of a virgin should be taken literally?

It's just that some of us have a sense of wonder about the world and the universe. I'm not talking about myself but for some people I know, the fact that we're on a watery planet going around a ball of gas is miracle enough which I think is a really positive way to look at things like this

Yes, some of us do have a sense of wonder. Why would you think this is exclusive to theists?

But where you (and other theists) make stuff up when an answer is unknown, we admit when something may not yet be known. Which sounds more intellectually honest?

It's not a miracle that we are on a watery planet. If we weren't, we wouldn't be here discussing this. We evolved because earth is such that it can support life, not because the earth was designed for us.

Engage your sense of wonder for a few minutes...

There are at least 100 billion galaxies, each with at least 100 billion stars, and an untold number of planets of all descriptions. Does it really sound like a miracle that some percentage of those countless planets have water?

So far, we have discovered almost 1900 extrasolar planets, many of them are rocky, and many of them are in the 'Goldilocks' zone. Where is the miracle?

As for me, the importance of water, complexity of our body, the eyes and the brain make it seem like it was created by someone intelligent.

So, you are convinced based on the fallacy of argument from ignorance. I'm shocked, shocked I tells ya!

Also I feel that the big bang had a cause/source that did it and set events into place.

Another argument from ignorance fallacy.

If you only you could provide some evidence for your 'feelings'.

So two theories arose in my mind-

1) There was only a single way our universe would turn out and this led to the formation of life on earth (and maybe other planets).
Since there was only one way the universe could've gone forming over the 14 billion years it shines light on the possibility that it was a creator's intention for life to be born.
Conclusion- We were specially meant to be born. We are not an accident.
2) OR there were infinite ways the universe could've turned out in 14 billion years (because chaos) and out of all those infinite possibilities we got this one- where we come to life and evolved and are having this conversation.
Conclusion- We were specially meant to be born. We are not an accident.

Your first argument argues for a god that is not omnipotent.

You second argues for the what would seem to be a universe that came about via natural processes. If the universe could have turned out an infinite variety of ways, then we are in one of those universes that is able to support life.

Here's a parable for you to ponder:

Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, "This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, may have been made to have me in it!"

That's my reasoning anyway. I'm not saying theists are right and atheists are wrong. I'm just saying people have different minds and different reasonings with which they make decisions for themselves.

Agreed.

Some of us use sound and valid logic, and demonstrable evidence to determine what is justified to believe in. Others use fallacies and 'feelings'.

You believe it's practical to believe in what we sense with our five senses and what is provable.

Not just what can be detected with out five senses. scientific apparatus can go well beyond our five senses.

It seems pretty likely that dark matter exists, yet it was not discovered with our five senses.

I believe some things exist beyond what we can sense and hence prove.

in other words, you believe things that are not justified by either evidence or reasoned argument. Why would you think that is a virtue?

It sounds an awful lot like gullibility to me.

Like Rob said in reply to my first ever post-why should we care about that?
You shouldn't. But we do.

I care because I think it would be much better to live in societies where the vast majority of the population based their beliefs on evidence and reasoned argument. Not on feelings.

[Losty]

Dear OP, if you ask nicely you could probably convince a mod to move the thread for you.

[strawdawg]

You do not understand religious terminology which is taken out of the Bible.

I was assuming that you mean it metaphorically. I was just being wilfully literal in order to make the point that it is not clear for what exactly the metaphor it is supposed to be. This vague sense of feeling which I suspect you call "heart" is not a reliable arbiter of what is real and what is not.

I think a lot of people that are atheist if they were to honestly look into scripture and the things of God may take a different view.

Yeah... you keep telling yourself that.

Even Einstein said, As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene.

[FatAndFaithless]

I was assuming that you mean it metaphorically. I was just being wilfully literal in order to make the point that it is not clear for what exactly the metaphor it is supposed to be. This vague sense of feeling which I suspect you call "heart" is not a reliable arbiter of what is real and what is not.


Yeah... you keep telling yourself that.

Even Einstein said, As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene.

And he also said he seriously doubted jesus claimed to be god, and sometimes wondered if the world would've been better off if Jesus had never lived.

[robvalue]

What does it matter what Einstein said, out of curiosity?

[The Grand Nudger]

@such wonderings: Wish granted, posthumously. LOL, feel like a fuckin genie today.