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Robert Spencer's Non-Scholarly Tricks Revealed
#1
Robert Spencer's Non-Scholarly Tricks Revealed
Here is a rather keen as well as a stinging analysis for Spencer lovers that was posted by a reviewer on the Amazon website. It's a review of his book "Did Muhammad Exist?: An Inquiry into Islam's Obscure Origins" which lays bare the reprehensibly inconsistent and biased methodology that he uses to support his fringe theory of a mythic historical Muhammad.

http://www.amazon.com/review/R8FAOHQ58SL...161017061X


Some worthy points:

Quote:One of the most immediate problems one encounters is Spencer's subjective use of scholarly material and a flick through his bibliography illustrates his heavy handed bias for revisionism. Since no reputable academic scholar, mainstream or sceptic, holds to the non-existence of Muhammad, Spencer is forced to rely on an obscure ultra-revisionist fringe, some of whom are scholars whose works are largely marginal or dated, and some others who are evidently not scholars at all. In his introduction, Spencer lists the scholars whose work he researched, classifying them as "earlier generation" and "modern-day" scholars. Regarding the earlier generation, Spencer uses their material craftily pouncing on any area of the Islamic literary tradition they doubted while ignoring their overall assessment of the sources. Thus Goldziher's suspicion of some political and theological traditions is transformed to a suspicion of all traditions. Schacht scepticism regarding legal traditions is transformed to scepticism of everything. What Spencer fails to mention to his readers is that many of these `earlier generation' of scholars were in actual fact known for their biographies of Muhammad. Spencer utilizes some of David Margoliouth's arguments, but fails to tell his readers about, or include in his bibliography, the 550 page biography of Muhammad written by Margoliouth entitled "Muhammad and the Rise of Islam". Similarly, Spencer utilizes the arguments of Aloys Sprenger without mentioning, or noting in his bibliography, that Sprenger authored a 220 page biography of Muhammad entitled "The Life of Muhammad from Original Sources". He utilizes a few of William Muir's points without mentioning that Muir wrote a massive 4 volume biography of Muhammad entitled "The Life of Mahomet". Thus one has to question Spencer usage of these scholars when they wrote so extensively about the Muhammad.

Quote:Spencer failed to engage with the documentary evidence that directly refutes his linguistic word-play. He failed to mention the bilingual Greek-Arabic administrative papyri that clearly translate "Muhammad" as "Muhammad" in Greek. Further still, he failed to mention the Arab-Sasanian coins of Kirman which translate "Muhammad" as "Muhammad" in Middle Persian. So the Greeks held "Muhammad" as proper name, the Persians held "Muhammad" as a proper name, the Arab held "Muhammad" as a proper name, but Spencer wants us to believe it was not a proper name but "could have been" referring to Jesus even though all Christian documentary sources from the time refer to him as nothing other than Jesus.

Quote:A third problem is the inadequacies of Spencer's methodology. For example, he is frequently inconsistent and incoherent. As for inconsistency, readers will encounter Spencer rubbishing a source because it is late. You will then surprisingly find that he uses late, sometimes very late, material when it supports his thesis. There are several instances of this. One especially notable case is found in chapter 2, page 59, where Spencer argues that the Qur'an postdates Caliph Abd al-Malik. To argue this, Spencer adduces as evidence a tradition found in the work of 16th century traditionalist al-Suyuti (d. 1505 CE). Spencer remarks that "it is hard to explain why this hadith would have been invented at such a late date unless it contained some kernel of authenticity". Thus while Spencer adopts the revisionist criteria of history, he has no qualms utilising literary material 900 years after the fact as long as it supports his argument.

Quote:Spencer failed to engage with the documentary evidence that directly refutes his linguistic word-play. He failed to mention the bilingual Greek-Arabic administrative papyri that clearly translate "Muhammad" as "Muhammad" in Greek. Further still, he failed to mention the Arab-Sasanian coins of Kirman which translate "Muhammad" as "Muhammad" in Middle Persian. So the Greeks held "Muhammad" as proper name, the Persians held "Muhammad" as a proper name, the Arab held "Muhammad" as a proper name, but Spencer wants us to believe it was not a proper name but "could have been" referring to Jesus even though all Christian documentary sources from the time refer to him as nothing other than Jesus.

Quote:The argument raises more questions than it answers. Too many awkward questions arise. Firstly, why now? Why did Christians, after 600 years, start referring to Jesus Christ as Muhammad? Why not continue with the name they always used, namely `Jesus' or `Christ'? Spencer provides no reason. It's just logically possible. Secondly, if the Christians of the seventh century referred to Jesus as Muhammad, then how do we account for the depiction of that Muhammad in their own texts? That Muhammad was clearly a person alive in the seventh century. That Muhammad was clearly an Arab. That Muhammad had a new religion. That Muhammad was a merchant. In their estimation, that Muhammad was a `false prophet', `a liar', and an `anti-Christ'. Why were they so hostile to this Muhammad if he was in fact their lord and saviour? Thirdly, if the Christians of the seventh century referred to Jesus as Muhammad, then why did they make a distinction between this Muhammad and Jesus himself? Some of there texts make mentions of Jesus in high esteem, but when they mention Muhammad, it's usually not so nice. If Muhammad was really Jesus, why did they make the distinction between him and Jesus? Lastly, if the Christians of the seventh century referred to Jesus as Muhammad, how do we distinguish that Muhammad from the Muhammad of eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelfth century Christian texts.

Quote:There is not a shred of evidence. Nowhere does Spencer provide any evidence for this argument. He merely asserts it as a possibility. It would have been impressive if Spencer explored the Christian writings of the preceding centuries and produce an instance when they referred to Jesus as Muhammad or some cognate word. If he were able to do so his argument would have had some weight. Predictably he brings forth nothing. The only evidence is that it's possible.


Thus, it seems Mr. Spencer's fresh and tasteful thesis does not stand up to close inspection.

Oh well. Maybe better luck next time.
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#2
RE: Robert Spencer's Non-Scholarly Tricks Revealed
Ignores the fact that Spencer is citing other scholars, primarily German and it was the Germans who first used historical criticism to dismantle xtianity for the pile of crap it is, Rayaan.

I get that muslims prefer to be comfortable with their fairy tales just as xtians prefer their own fairy tales. So I will ask you, where is the evidence that it happened the way the koran claims?

P.S. - the koran cannot be used to prove itself....in case you were thinking of wandering down that road.
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#3
RE: Robert Spencer's Non-Scholarly Tricks Revealed
Not to mention the whole movement around the offspring of Mohammad. What about Zaid ibn Ali ibn Hussain? Did he not rise against the government. Is that made up history...did people not rally around Ahlebayt or did Ahlebayt totally make up their lineage to Mohammad?
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#4
RE: Robert Spencer's Non-Scholarly Tricks Revealed
Who knows, I take all history with a grain of salt.
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#5
RE: Robert Spencer's Non-Scholarly Tricks Revealed
(January 14, 2015 at 10:56 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Not to mention the whole movement around the offspring of Mohammad. What about Zaid ibn Ali ibn Hussain? Did he not rise against the government. Is that made up history...did people not rally around Ahlebayt or did Ahlebayt totally make up their lineage to Mohammad?

Yeah...and a family was cobbled together for jesus, too. How long is it going to take before you realize it is all the same stuff?

The implication of the video in the other thread is that the Arab empire created islam. Islam did not inspire the conquest of the empire. I'm sure you won't watch it.
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#6
RE: Robert Spencer's Non-Scholarly Tricks Revealed
Therefor all the supernatural stuff actually did happen? Cool.
Feel free to send me a private message.
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#7
RE: Robert Spencer's Non-Scholarly Tricks Revealed
I don't think it matters if Muhammed existed or not. I personally think he did. I also think he was full of shit, and that the world would be a better place had he never been born.

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#8
RE: Robert Spencer's Non-Scholarly Tricks Revealed
Why were all the people worth worshipping born so long ago?
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
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#9
RE: Robert Spencer's Non-Scholarly Tricks Revealed
(January 15, 2015 at 4:47 am)robvalue Wrote: Why were all the people worth worshipping born so long ago?

Winston Churchill was born in the 19th century, there's that.

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#10
RE: Robert Spencer's Non-Scholarly Tricks Revealed
(January 15, 2015 at 4:51 am)Parkers Tan Wrote:
(January 15, 2015 at 4:47 am)robvalue Wrote: Why were all the people worth worshipping born so long ago?

Winston Churchill was born in the 19th century, there's that.

Winston "let the starving miners eat grass because they're no better than cows" and "machine gun them down" Churchil?
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