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RE: Christian Views on Parental Responsibility
January 21, 2015 at 4:04 pm
(This post was last modified: January 21, 2015 at 4:05 pm by Regina.)
10, 13, 17.
Comments/justifications;
10 - I don't believe in stopping people from being religious if they just want to keep it to themselves and not Bible-bash, and not practice any part of the religion that harms themselves or others.
13 - The choice of Abortion or giving birth is always the choice of the pregnant party. No ifs, no buts.
17 - Dying or having extra pain "because God" is pathetic and unnecessary.
"Adulthood is like looking both ways before you cross the road, and then getting hit by an airplane" - sarcasm_only
"Ironically like the nativist far-Right, which despises multiculturalism, but benefits from its ideas of difference to scapegoat the other and to promote its own white identity politics; these postmodernists, leftists, feminists and liberals also use multiculturalism, to side with the oppressor, by demanding respect and tolerance for oppression characterised as 'difference', no matter how intolerable." - Maryam Namazie
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RE: Christian Views on Parental Responsibility
January 21, 2015 at 4:06 pm
(January 21, 2015 at 3:58 pm)whateverist Wrote: (January 21, 2015 at 3:38 pm)Blackout Wrote: I voted for 18. Am I alone on this?
Yeah maybe. I'm not going to allow a child to decide stop or change treatments for the sake of getting together with the mythical figure she has hallucinated. Time to be the adult and say no.
(January 21, 2015 at 3:47 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: You would be okay with an atheist friend letting his 11 year old daughter die due to her religious beliefs?
Doesn't this discussion bring up the popularly held misconception that there is an "atheist way of doing things" or at least an atheist set of morals? Why would there be any shoulds in any direction on any topic that stem from being an atheist.
My goal here was to collect the personal position of theists and atheists on a few questions based on their own moral sense. Even for the theists who may think there is an objective set of morals which should rule out, I would still want to know what their personal choice would be.
I was more just using the same situation as #18, just as a friend and not you personally. But I agree with you.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
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RE: Christian Views on Parental Responsibility
January 21, 2015 at 4:08 pm
(January 21, 2015 at 3:38 pm)Blackout Wrote: I voted for 18. Am I alone on this?
I'm sort of with you depending on the circumstances. See above.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: Christian Views on Parental Responsibility
January 21, 2015 at 4:10 pm
(January 21, 2015 at 4:08 pm)Jenny A Wrote: (January 21, 2015 at 3:38 pm)Blackout Wrote: I voted for 18. Am I alone on this?
I'm sort of with you depending on the circumstances. See above.
I agree. I think from 14 years old forward there's a certain maturity that parents should respect. If it's a child between 4-12 years old then I don't see any point in allowing it.
How can we force someone to be treated against their will? Do doctors have measures of coercion?
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RE: Christian Views on Parental Responsibility
January 21, 2015 at 4:15 pm
(This post was last modified: January 21, 2015 at 4:19 pm by FatAndFaithless.)
The whole "emotional maturity" idea is very very gray and imprecise though. Kids devlop in varying ways and at varying speeds, especially mentally and emotionally, so it's nearly impossible to set a law that will be amenable to every child's personal emotional development. The age of consent being 18 might not be approriate in all areas for all people (age of legal sex consent, buying porn, serving in the military, voting, etc), and there can be 14 year olds with far more emotional maturity and conscience than 19 year olds, but we still need to settle on some line. It's not perfect, but the line being at 18 years old is okay in my books just for practicality.
Could it be lowered for some areas, like consent to medical treatment? Sure, and as we further our understanding of mental development I'd have no problem with lowering it to whatever age seems best, I just think 18 is a safe line for now.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
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RE: Christian Views on Parental Responsibility
January 21, 2015 at 4:15 pm
Tbh if someone wants to refuse treatment because they are old and had a long life, or because they just want to "get it over with", I have less of a problem with people refusing treatment.
I just find the idea of refusing treatment "because God" horrible. So your God wants you to suffer? That's not a God you need to be following.
"Adulthood is like looking both ways before you cross the road, and then getting hit by an airplane" - sarcasm_only
"Ironically like the nativist far-Right, which despises multiculturalism, but benefits from its ideas of difference to scapegoat the other and to promote its own white identity politics; these postmodernists, leftists, feminists and liberals also use multiculturalism, to side with the oppressor, by demanding respect and tolerance for oppression characterised as 'difference', no matter how intolerable." - Maryam Namazie
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RE: Christian Views on Parental Responsibility
January 21, 2015 at 4:16 pm
(This post was last modified: January 21, 2015 at 4:18 pm by Losty.)
The last one is crazy. How old is the child? Does he/she understand the consequences? Really 11 votes for must forbid? I can't even answer the question without more information but I can say that I am almost never for forced medical treatment of informed people 13ish and older.
(January 21, 2015 at 4:15 pm)NuclearJaguar Wrote: Tbh if someone wants to refuse treatment because they are old and had a long life, or because they just want to "get it over with", I have less of a problem with people refusing treatment.
I just find the idea of refusing treatment "because God" horrible. So your God wants you to suffer? That's not a God you need to be following.
Why is your opinion of their god relevant when discussing their right to refuse medical treatment?
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Religious Views: He gay
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RE: Christian Views on Parental Responsibility
January 21, 2015 at 4:39 pm
(This post was last modified: January 21, 2015 at 4:41 pm by Nope.)
(January 21, 2015 at 4:08 pm)Jenny A Wrote: (January 21, 2015 at 3:38 pm)Blackout Wrote: I voted for 18. Am I alone on this?
I'm sort of with you depending on the circumstances. See above.
For me, it depends on my child's chances of survival and the suffering the treatment is causing her. So, I answered 18
Because I was talking to my daughter while taking the survey, I accidentally hit
Atheists: your child is pregnant and wants to abort. Morally either choice would be permissible.*. That was most definitely not the choice that I wanted. I am very prochoice.
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RE: Christian Views on Parental Responsibility
January 21, 2015 at 4:44 pm
I voted:
Atheists: your child wants to change religious affiliation. You must allow.
Atheists: your child is pregnant and wants to abort. You must allow.
Atheists: your child has a lethal disease and wants to avoid treatment for sincere religious reasons. You must forbid.
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RE: Christian Views on Parental Responsibility
January 21, 2015 at 4:45 pm
(This post was last modified: January 21, 2015 at 4:46 pm by Dystopia.)
(January 21, 2015 at 4:15 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: The whole "emotional maturity" idea is very very gray and imprecise though. Kids devlop in varying ways and at varying speeds, especially mentally and emotionally, so it's nearly impossible to set a law that will be amenable to every child's personal emotional development. The age of consent being 18 might not be approriate in all areas for all people (age of legal sex consent, buying porn, serving in the military, voting, etc), and there can be 14 year olds with far more emotional maturity and conscience than 19 year olds, but we still need to settle on some line. It's not perfect, but the line being at 18 years old is okay in my books just for practicality.
Could it be lowered for some areas, like consent to medical treatment? Sure, and as we further our understanding of mental development I'd have no problem with lowering it to whatever age seems best, I just think 18 is a safe line for now.
I disagree, 18 is too much, if kids can drive when they're 16, face criminal responsibility and work with parental authorization, are able to consume alcohol (not sure if it's like that in the US), I think some autonomy should be given by the parents. I would still deny it though. Forcing a medical treatment doesn't seem an appropriate choice to me. I'd prefer convincing my son/daughter that it was the best choice instead of using force
But for a 12 year old it's a no-brainer.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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