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Quote:We are not desperate about the reality of God
Of course you are, sonny. The only reason you are here is because you find our very existence to be a threat to your continued belief in fairy tales. Believers cannot stand the fact that anyone disputes their silly concoction of gods, devils, saints, sinners, angels, elves, and Santa Claus.
Someday, you may grow up. I have no hope for Angel.
PS- you are right about one thing. Your personal experiences are fucking worthless as "evidence."
Bolding by me
Really Min is that why any believer comes here, because we can't stand the fact you disagree? It couldn't be to falsify their belief, the pursuit of truth, seeing another's opinion or simple curiosity? He must have got you pretty heated for you to get that far in your rut
I'll play along and checnge the stream of thought for everyone to pick apart.
If humans evolve through cognitive social and natural selection and we carry that out through the existence of humanity, where does that lead? Is it feasible for one day, if the world becomes slowly unlivable by today's means (O2 , fresh water, food intake), that a humans could evolve past the need for a physical body? Could they transcend their physical selves into a semi-tangible transcendent form? Once in that form would it not be easier to experiment/ control the forces of the universe (gravity, energy, radiation, time). If the species transcended to a point where it was one collective amount of sentient energy, with control over the forces of nature would we not attempt to create life ourselves on a planet, if only for experimentation? With all this being plausible, why is God so implausible aren't they basically the same thing?
You really have massive insecurity problems...but then you are aware of this....YES??
(spell check is my friend!!)
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
Quote:We are not desperate about the reality of God
Of course you are, sonny. The only reason you are here is because you find our very existence to be a threat to your continued belief in fairy tales. Believers cannot stand the fact that anyone disputes their silly concoction of gods, devils, saints, sinners, angels, elves, and Santa Claus.
Someday, you may grow up. I have no hope for Angel.
PS- you are right about one thing. Your personal experiences are fucking worthless as "evidence."
Bolding by me
Really Min is that why any believer comes here, because we can't stand the fact you disagree? It couldn't be to falsify their belief, the pursuit of truth, seeing another's opinion or simple curiosity? He must have got you pretty heated for you to get that far in your rut
I'll play along and checnge the stream of thought for everyone to pick apart.
If humans evolve through cognitive social and natural selection and we carry that out through the existence of humanity, where does that lead? Is it feasible for one day, if the world becomes slowly unlivable by today's means (O2 , fresh water, food intake), that a humans could evolve past the need for a physical body? Could they transcend their physical selves into a semi-tangible transcendent form? Once in that form would it not be easier to experiment/ control the forces of the universe (gravity, energy, radiation, time). If the species transcended to a point where it was one collective amount of sentient energy, with control over the forces of nature would we not attempt to create life ourselves on a planet, if only for experimentation? With all this being plausible, why is God so implausible aren't they basically the same thing?
You really have massive insecurity problems...but then you are aware of this....YES??
(spell check is my friend!!)
I agree, a spell check function built into the reply dialogue would help me profusely. Especially late at night doped up on Vicodins with a keyboard going through a crappy KVM.
As far as insecurity.. no not really insecure here. Just using a little sarcasm to point out Min's very absolutest statement that doesn't really apply to all believers.
Now if the human race has the possibility to evolve into transcendant beings, given enough time in existence, wouldn't that possibility have to happen at least once along the timeline of existence? Would that transcented human seem omni-max to our persective today? If it existed outside time and could affect reality would it not attempt to further itself by the process of creation, even if merely from instinct?
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
I have no idea why you think it's plausible that humans could become non-physical. How can anything physical become non-physical? Is that even possible?
In fact, is anything non physical at all? I know of no evidence of anything that is. (Non-material maybe, because I've heard that some particles aren't the same as "matter" or something like that, but non-physical - I don't know of any way how that could even be possible).
And how is this the same as a deity that is supposedly the supernatural creator of the universe? And you're guessing that somehow humans will become non-physical in the future, but what's that got to do with it already being the case? And a deity that created the universe, "God", already existing - is not the same thing right?
(May 5, 2010 at 5:20 am)tackattack Wrote: If humans evolve through cognitive social and natural selection and we carry that out through the existence of humanity, where does that lead? Is it feasible for one day, if the world becomes slowly unlivable by todays means (O2 , fresh water, food intake), that a humans could evolve past the need for a physical body? Could they transcend their physical selves into a semi-tangible transcendant form? Once in that form would it not be easier to experiment/ control the forces of the universe (gravity, energy, radiation, time). If the species transcended to a point where it was one collective amount of sentient energy, with control over the forces of nature would we not attept to create life ourselves on a planet, if only for experimentation? With all this being plausible, why is God so implausible aren't they basically the same thing?
Have to admit that I haven't read this whole long thread, and am jumping in.
The idea of humans becoming a collective energy based life form through evolution is very very unlikely, but a hell of a lot more plausible and realistic than a god. A god is not the same thing as a natural process. If it was, it would be called 'nature' instead of 'god'. If you call it 'god', everyone will think you are talking about an invisible, magical, everything-creator who wants humans to do certain things we wouldn't normally do, like reassure it telepathically how much you love it (gods don't have very good self esteem, especially the xtian one who keeps declaring everything he makes 'good' and then fucking it up so bad he had to keep destroying it).
May 5, 2010 at 9:32 am (This post was last modified: May 5, 2010 at 9:48 am by tavarish.)
(May 5, 2010 at 6:39 am)tackattack Wrote: Now if the human race has the possibility to evolve into transcendant beings, given enough time in existence, wouldn't that possibility have to happen at least once along the timeline of existence? Would that transcented human seem omni-max to our persective today? If it existed outside time and could affect reality would it not attempt to further itself by the process of creation, even if merely from instinct?
You're presenting way more questions than answers.
1. We don't know if humans morphing into 'transcendent' beings or whatever you call it, is even possible. There's no reason to think it is.
2. Evolution isn't a ladder. There is also a possibility that nature can prefer a less complex organism, rather than a more complex one. There's also a possibility that we'll all evolve into walking penises. Why don't we account for that?
3. You're asking a hypothetical question based on another hypothetical question. Stop arguing from personal incredulity. We don't know what our perspective would be - it's never happened.
4. You're equating God to something that evolved, which necessarily means he isn't eternal, as evolution has to do with reproduction, natural selection, and death.
(May 4, 2010 at 7:30 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: Oh come on, Paul. Do I have to put you in tavarish's intellectually-challenged category? I had a little bit of respect for you, but that's quickly waning.
High horse. Get off it.
(May 4, 2010 at 7:30 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: When did I admit that my evidence is not evidence? I was challenging tavarish's claim that "answering a question is providing evidence for your case." The point is that those are two different things.
Do we need hints of context?
Answering questions regarding your claims specifically require evidence for those claims, not a rehash of your arguments.
Do you understand now?
(May 4, 2010 at 7:30 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: Aren't you smart enough to understand that what I answered was not an admission that my evidence is not evidence, but a rebuttal to make a distinction between answering a question and providing evidence?
Aren't you smart enough to know that claims require evidence, and illogical assumptions are not evidence?
(May 4, 2010 at 7:30 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: Let's define who Us is: die-hard atheists on an atheists forum. In the real world, my evidence would at least be considered rather than dismissed from the get-go.
In the real world? Do you mean among people that don't question much and know the difference between emotional appeal and skeptical inquiry? This is the real world - your nutty assertions have been ripped apart. Thanks for playing.
Oh, thanks for throwing yet another logical fallacy in there as well. "Die-hard atheists". LOL.
(May 4, 2010 at 7:30 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: Now explain to me why I should change my mind just because a few atheists on an atheists forum say that my evidence is not evidence, when the discussion would go differently in the real world?
1. Explain how this isn't the real world.
2. You don't need to change your mind. Just stop pretending everyone else "doesn't get it" and act high and mighty because your arguments couldn't stand up to logic. You failed. Don't drag it out and pretend it didn't happen - it makes you look foolish.
(May 4, 2010 at 7:30 pm)AngelThMan Wrote: Give me something new and fresh so that I can address it.
We've been at it for 70 pages. We've addressed everything in your argument tenfold. Do YOU have anything to contribute?
Quote:Really Min is that why any believer comes here, because we can't stand the fact you disagree?
Yes, ultimately (especially in your case) I think that is true.
We frighten you. We can exist without groveling to your god (or any of the other gods you think are fake) and the fact that "He" fails to strike us dead causes you more consternation. ("Come on GOD...show these immoral atheist bastards who is BOSS!!!!!") But he ignores you....again.
We are a repudiation of your entire worldview and you can't stand it. So...like moths to flames...here you are. Again. Still. With nothing to offer.
70 pages and you still have yet to offer anything more than
If x then god
You know, I can keep calling you an asshole for as long as you want to be one.
Quote:We are not desperate about the reality of God
Of course you are, sonny. The only reason you are here is because you find our very existence to be a threat to your continued belief in fairy tales. Believers cannot stand the fact that anyone disputes their silly concoction of gods, devils, saints, sinners, angels, elves, and Santa Claus.
Someday, you may grow up. I have no hope for Angel.
PS- you are right about one thing. Your personal experiences are fucking worthless as "evidence."
Min not you or any atheist is a threat to my knowledge of God, you are no more than a wink in time why would I be threatened by someone who's here today and gone tomorrow when I have an eternal God who will take care of me no matter what comes my way. The reason I'm a part of this forum is to increase in my knowledge of God. You see Min you or for that matter anyone on this forum that challenges what I believe helps to make me stronger. Your challenges make me dig deeper into scripture to find Gods intended truth for my life. So I'll end this reply tonight by saying thanks for aiding in my growth as a christian. When I find a little time I'll find a verse that will just thrill you.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(May 5, 2010 at 10:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: Min not you or any atheist is a threat to my knowledge of God, you are no more than a wink in time why would I be threatened by someone who's here today and gone tomorrow when I have an eternal God who will take care of me no matter what comes my way. The reason I'm a part of this forum is to increase in my knowledge of God. You see Min you or for that matter anyone on this forum that challenges what I believe helps to make me stronger. Your challenges make me dig deeper into scripture to find Gods intended truth for my life. So I'll end this reply tonight by saying thanks for aiding in my growth as a christian. When I find a little time I'll find a verse that will just thrill you.
(May 5, 2010 at 10:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: Min not you or any atheist is a threat to my knowledge of God, you are no more than a wink in time why would I be threatened by someone who's here today and gone tomorrow when I have an eternal God who will take care of me no matter what comes my way.
Wait a minute. I thought that god takes care of all of us. Now he's all yours? /sarcasm
(May 5, 2010 at 10:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: The reason I'm a part of this forum is to increase in my knowledge of God. You see Min you or for that matter anyone on this forum that challenges what I believe helps to make me stronger. Your challenges make me dig deeper into scripture to find Gods intended truth for my life. So I'll end this reply tonight by saying thanks for aiding in my growth as a christian.
It's too bad that you don't realize the unfortunate fact that the stronger a Christian is, the weaker their reasoning. You are closing your mind to reality to suit your need for comfort. That's okay with me, but don't expect an atheist to clap because you've lost your mind.
(May 5, 2010 at 10:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: When I find a little time I'll find a verse that will just thrill you.
Godschild (sounds like a Viking name if you say it fast), I never try to take anyone away from their faith. If believing in bullshit makes you happy, that's fine with me. However, comments like, "I'll find a verse that will just thrill you." make you sound silly . Don't you get that many atheists (not me) know more scripture than your average Christian and those of us who don't (like me), don't because we can't be bothered with it? You should probably save your verses for your peers. They tend to be far more impressed by them than this crowd.
In parting, I would like to say, holy butchered grammar, Batman!
