Evidence God Exists

[fr0d0]

Doesn't being Christian constitute that you accept the gift of salvation from your savior? Are you trying to argue that the Pope might not have been a Christian? When you're elected to the highest office in the religious hierarchy, it's pretty much a dead giveaway that you're a believer in the religion.

It's a valid point because in Catholicism the requirements are blurred.

[Thor]

Re: George Washington.. The cherry tree story ain't true? Man I have been HAD. The door to the old Poulton Hall used to stand behind the town hall in my home town. Bordered a graveyard. We played on and around it often as kids. Was FULL of character, overgrown ivy etc, a beautiful thing. Has been moved to completely the wrong place now.
Anywho, we learned the cherry tree story young, and some of us even learned from it. Whenever 'caught' doing something naughty, I would always hold my hand up to it. Always. Because of that story. And that door.
Doesn't change the stories' validity though, I'm not about to renounce honesty or anything...

Exactly! The story is a parable. It's meant to teach a lesson. Now, why couldn't the stories in the Bible (Noah's Ark, Samson and Delilah, David and Goliath, etc..) also be parables? Why couldn't the stories about Jesus also be parables? Makes a lot more sense than believing in a guy who could walk on water, heal the sick, feed a thousand people with a basket of fish and rise up from the dead.

[Godscreated]

Thor if you like we'll argue the salvation of that particular Pope but like I stated I do not know for a fact he was.

Thor here is my response to your reply and I believe it says salvation. Yes my statement did say christian but with a qualifier "believer"as accepting Christ as ones savoir. Seems to me I know exactly what I said. If you are not going to give me a yes or no answer then let's drop this. Also the 19 years refers only to the book of Mark not all the gospels.

tavarish just because a person declares him/herself as a christian does not mean they have accepted Christ as their savior. I've seen this to many times in the different churches I've been a member of. People will use the church and/or the name of God to advance themselves in what ever might benefit them such as prominence or power in the community,financial gain and so forth. Look at some of the money grabbers on TV,lost as last years Easter egg.

chatpilot yes I'm a fundamentalist as a matter of fact a Southern Baptist. This however does not mean that I take the entire Bible as literal there are parables,prophesy and there are those things that God explains so people might have some idea of the inconceivable.The last part of your reply to me I'm not sure how it's meant so let me say this I do believe that some people in all denominations are saved but not all of them. I do have two exceptions to this I will not state them so as not to offend anyone and the Catholics are not one of the exceptions.

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Re: George Washington.. The cherry tree story ain't true? Man I have been HAD. The door to the old Poulton Hall used to stand behind the town hall in my home town. Bordered a graveyard. We played on and around it often as kids. Was FULL of character, overgrown ivy etc, a beautiful thing. Has been moved to completely the wrong place now.
Anywho, we learned the cherry tree story young, and some of us even learned from it. Whenever 'caught' doing something naughty, I would always hold my hand up to it. Always. Because of that story. And that door.
Doesn't change the stories' validity though, I'm not about to renounce honesty or anything...

Exactly! The story is a parable. It's meant to teach a lesson. Now, why couldn't the stories in the Bible (Noah's Ark, Samson and Delilah, David and Goliath, etc..) also be parables? Why couldn't the stories about Jesus also be parables? Makes a lot more sense than believing in a guy who could walk on water, heal the sick, feed a thousand people with a basket of fish and rise up from the dead.

Thor those are OT stories...just stating. I'm not sure but I do not think parables were used in the OT I do know that there are a number of prophesies. Jesus used parables to teach a lesson and at times to hide the meaning from certain people about what He was teaching.

[chatpilot]

Godschild let me clarify what I meant in the second half of my last post. I was referring specifically to all of the infighting between the various Christian denominations as to which church is the true church and teaches the true doctrines of scripture as they are supposed to be taught. Many fundamentalist denominations and others refer to the Catholic church as satanic and they have even called it the whore of Babylon etc. Many other fundamntalist accuse other denominations of not preaching the true word of the lord etc. It is ridiculous and quite frankly a public embarrassment for the church as a whole.

[tavarish]

I thought you were actually going to make a valid point, and out comes the No True Scotsman fallacy.

How would trying to make money on TV affect your belief in Christ? How would using the church for personal advancement affect your belief in Christ?

Do all people who believe in Christ only do good things?

[tackattack]

Actually the Jesus Christ of LDS church belive in Christ, but follow him and modern prophets, so you can claim to be a Christian and not follow Christ.
Catholics also preach atonement of sins through confession, yet believe in Christ for salvation.

God and salvation is subjective because Christ died for each of us, that easily explains all the different denominations.
Sorry for the interjection, please continue

[RedFish]

Some good points on all sides.
Godschild please be more specific, you say there are two denominations that are beyond salvation? Have I misunderstood? Who are they and why? If we have Faith is it not our duty to both cause offence and be offended? We cannot progress without change., as Chatpilot said about in-fighting...''It is ridiculous and quite frankly a public embarrassment for the church as a whole.'' I have Faith, and I'd much rather let non believers doubt, and question, and maybe destroy that Faith, than argue the 'Truth' with people who claim to have Faith also.

[tackattack]

infighting happens because of stubborness and the act of choosing to say, I'm right and you're wrong. The non-denominationl movement has reduced it's beliefs to the core of Christianity and accepted the rest of each denomination as a different outlook on the same thing. Refusing to take sides or claim right/ wrong may seem apologetic, but it's truly just a simplification of definition of belief and mutual acceptance for the furthering of a cause.

[Frank]

I everyone would just agree with me all the time (and follow my thinking even when I change my mind) ... the world would be perfect.

[fr0d0]

A lawyer wanting no one to argue with - there's a first!