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William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 8, 2015 at 4:36 pm
William Lane Craig, advocate for such amazing arguments as "things have a cause, and the only cause for all things is god," and "I'm going to believe in god no matter what you say!" has once again hunkered down over the remains of his credibility and pinched out another argument all over it: "Math is good at describing things, therefore god!"
Quote:It was very evident to me that [naturalists are not] able to provide any sort of an explanation of mathematics’ applicability to the physical world.…
The theist has explanatory resources that are not available to the rationalist.
Yes, it's another argument from ignorance: "I don't understand why this is so good at what it does, therefore god." Why is this guy still respected in christian circles? It's not like he started off anywhere good, and his arguments have only been dropping out of the fucking sky with increasing frequency... how is he still able to make a living off this?
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 8, 2015 at 4:45 pm
'Mathematics are good at describing things, therefore God' is effectively identical to, 'Ducks are good at doing things that qualify them as ducks, therefore God'.
I think you nailed it. 'Desperate' is the adjective that more and more describes Craig, so much so that it is possible that it becomes the accepted term, ie., 'He was in a desperate situation' will become, 'He was in a Craig situation.'
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 8, 2015 at 4:46 pm
Remember that when discussing the average human intelligence, half of all humans are below average. This 3.6 billion is where asshats like WLC make their money.
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 8, 2015 at 4:59 pm
(February 8, 2015 at 4:46 pm)GalacticBusDriver Wrote: Remember that when discussing the average human intelligence, half of all humans are below average. This 3.6 billion is where asshats like WLC make their money.
Exactly, which is partly why I think WLC is getting to be this way; not only is he beginning to realize that he doesn't really have to do much to win over the only people he's capable of winning over, he's also just running out of cards to play. After all, there's only so many contortions you can put philosophy through and come out with god, and he ran out of them pretty early on.
In the end he's little more than a figurehead, a clean cut guy in a suit with a PHD in something or other who uses big, important sounding words, that the theists can point to and be like "look, that guy is on our side!"
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 8, 2015 at 4:59 pm
Does he still have his fans run around the internet claiming that he is an unbeatable debater who has crushed all atheists who dared confront him?
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 8, 2015 at 5:09 pm
(February 8, 2015 at 4:59 pm)Alex K Wrote: Does he still have his fans run around the internet claiming that he is an unbeatable debater who has crushed all atheists who dared confront him?
We had one of those here late last year, in His_Majesty, remember? Then again, that guy was also a Kent Hovind fan, so that might just be down to low standards.
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 8, 2015 at 7:02 pm
No. Just no. I've heard this argument before and it is incredibly weak. Mathematics is a system created by humans. It helps us order things based on how we perceive the universe to work.
The workings of math indicates an intelligent observer. Not an intelligent designer.
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 8, 2015 at 7:16 pm
(This post was last modified: February 8, 2015 at 7:17 pm by Dystopia.)
(February 8, 2015 at 7:02 pm)Natachan Wrote: No. Just no. I've heard this argument before and it is incredibly weak. Mathematics is a system created by humans. It helps us order things based on how we perceive the universe to work.
The workings of math indicates an intelligent observer. Not an intelligent designer.
If I'm not mistaken, mathematics is the only science where man determines the object - While other sciences already have objects and we just study them. Mathematics is a system created by man based on
observations.
---> To the OP - Arguments from incredulity and ignorance are very common among theists, and it's annoying as hell. I just wish they could recognize there are eminent flaws in not knowing something and reaching the conclusion that "god did it!".
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 8, 2015 at 7:19 pm
So I listened to the whole debate. Unfortunately, Daniel Came didn't come prepared for the debate. It took him a long time to develop a counter argument. Other than it's an argument from ignorance, the argument is a result of selection bias and a rehashed version of "where do the laws of logic come from" argument.
Daniel Came eventually pointed out the selection bias that Craig was using when math only applies to physical science. Came did not include how mathematics has a lot more variability than what we apply to physical science. Scientist apply a selected small subset of mathematics not all mathematics. So it isn't as amazing as Craig makes it sound. It's like being amazed that you can make a circle out of puddy where the circle represents physical science and the puddy is mathematics.
This argument is also just a rehashed version of where do the laws of logic come from. Mathematics is nothing more than given some axioms, what patterns and operations can be found using the laws of logic. Craig makes it sound like mathematics is something beyond this definition. The laws of logic do not point to a higher intelligence as they can the inherent rules of our universe.
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RE: William Lane Craig continues to desperately defend the indefensible.
February 8, 2015 at 7:21 pm
Quote:Why is this guy still respected in christian circles?
It takes little to impress a jesus freak.
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