atheism in centuries past

[Pyrrho]

I read a post on another forum from a person whose parent or grandparent only admitted to being an atheist just before death. Apparently that atheist kept his/her beliefs secret for some reason.

I wonder what it was like to be an atheist back in the 1700s or 1800s or even the early 1900s?

Throughout most of history, being an atheist was illegal, with death as the punishment, and often in a very unpleasant way. The idea of a separation of church and state is a relatively modern one. So, in most countries throughout most of history, you had to at least pretend to believe whatever the state religion was, if you wanted to continue living.

Now, for the dates you are mentioning, the situation is, overall, much better than in earlier times. But even so, one needed to be careful. David Hume (1711-1776) was denied positions, likely due to his perceived irreligion, and he was careful to never publicly say that he did not believe in a god. Not to mention the fact that he is now widely regarded as the greatest philosopher to write in the English language. And he was personally very likable, according to pretty much all contemporary accounts of him. If he was screwed in such circumstances, it would be very bad for someone of his time who was an outspoken atheist, who was not as personable or as brilliant.

Basically, taking the world as a whole, if you are an atheist and want to publicly proclaim it, any time in the past would be worse than today. And even now, atheists are one of the most distrusted groups in America. So it isn't as if now is that great. But in the past, it was worse, and exactly how much worse depends on exactly when and where we are talking about.

[robvalue]

I can't believe how retarded that is, atheists are the least trusted. You're okay as long as you believe some form of horse shit, even if it directly contradicts my horse shit, but if you don't believe in any horse shit at all you're a piece of horse shit.

I'm embarrassed on Americas behalf, you're welcome :p

[Mudhammam]

David Hume (1711-1776) was denied positions, likely due to his perceived irreligion

Let's not forget the Bertrand Russell case involving the New York City education board, the state Supreme Court, and the College of the City of New York in 1940.

[robvalue]

The idea of atheism (and homosexuality) being illegal both makes me laugh and makes me incredibly sad. It's like... how can that possibly even work? The scariest thing is how recent it was. And how many people today who think they are shocked by it would have just gone along with it back then? A lot.

[Pyrrho]

I'm old enough to remember 'Kill a Queer for Christ' t-shirts. Anita Bryant was pretty open about wanting 10 year prison terms for all the gays in that era too.

The Christers aren't that far, ever, of being ready, willing, and able to launch a pogrom.

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President Reagan did not consider HIV to be a problem either, Pat Buchanan didn't care how many collateral deaths might accrue if HIV could scour the country of gay people.

That reminds me of a particular bit of crazy that many religionists put forth. If HIV is God's wrath, then evidently God likes lesbians the most, because they get HIV less than heterosexual people. Reality just does not fit with the religious narrative that religious bigots put forth.

[dyresand]

The idea of atheism (and homosexuality) being illegal both makes me laugh and makes me incredibly sad. It's like... how can that possibly even work? The scariest thing is how recent it was. And how many people today who think they are shocked by it would have just gone along with it back then? A lot.

In reality there is more atheists out there in America but they are not speaking up or speaking out because well community ties and what not. And also is the younger generations who really cannot speak up for themselves because when they speak out against a god and their beliefs they suffer and get it forced onto them like believe this shit or your little ass is going to get punished by god and burn in hell.

[Pyrrho]

The idea of atheism (and homosexuality) being illegal both makes me laugh and makes me incredibly sad. It's like... how can that possibly even work? The scariest thing is how recent it was. And how many people today who think they are shocked by it would have just gone along with it back then? A lot.

Homosexuality has a very different history from atheism. In pre-Christian Europe, there was often no problem at all with homosexuality. The ancient Greeks and Romans (before Rome converted to Christianity) were totally fine with it. But they were not fine with denying the gods of the state.

The problem that people have had with homosexuality is religiously motivated. Christianity condemns it, and so where Christianity dominated, it was condemned. (Christianity is not alone in this, but not all religions have condemned it, as the example of the ancient Greeks and Romans proves.)

Of course, there are always some who go against the official teachings, and some Christians ignore the Bible's prohibition on homosexuality, just like most of them ignore the prohibition on blended fabrics:

• Deuteronomy 22:11 Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.

[watchamadoodle]

I've read that in many cases the official charge against Christians in Roman times was atheism. Everybody was expected to at least pretend to honor the Roman gods. Jews were exempted from that requirement, but Gentile Christians were not exempted. Also I believe the Romans saw Christianity as secretive and potentially politically subversive, so it was more complicated than simply atheism.

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But getting back to the topic, I'm amazed at the intelligence and rationality of these earlier atheists. They didn't have atheist books or youtube videos, and their culture was almost unanimously religious. Those were some smart and resolute people IMO.

[CapnAwesome]

There is a decent documentary which covers some of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2J232lPZno

[vorlon13]

The idea of atheism (and homosexuality) being illegal both makes me laugh and makes me incredibly sad. It's like... how can that possibly even work? The scariest thing is how recent it was. And how many people today who think they are shocked by it would have just gone along with it back then? A lot.

Homosexuality has a very different history from atheism. In pre-Christian Europe, there was often no problem at all with homosexuality. The ancient Greeks and Romans (before Rome converted to Christianity) were totally fine with it. But they were not fine with denying the gods of the state.

The problem that people have had with homosexuality is religiously motivated. Christianity condemns it, and so where Christianity dominated, it was condemned. (Christianity is not alone in this, but not all religions have condemned it, as the example of the ancient Greeks and Romans proves.)

Of course, there are always some who go against the official teachings, and some Christians ignore the Bible's prohibition on homosexuality, just like most of them ignore the prohibition on blended fabrics:

• Deuteronomy 22:11 Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.

We sure circle back to scripture cherry picking, don't we?

Have the catholics, or any other 'mainline' schism ever made an honest declaration acknowledging they do it and why ?

I've noted some deny they cherry pick at all, (JWs and Lutherans spring to mind) but I'll be damned if I see them ever boycotting shrimp night at Red Lobster or picketing JC Penney for selling sinful mixed fabric clothing.

Hell, the vast majority (catholics barely excepted, they being overly generous with the annulment thing) don't even seem to be aware of Mark 10:11 etal.