Pork Is Actually Halal...Sort Of....Maybe?

[ReptilianPeon]

So I was reviewing chapter two of the Quran (the longest chapter), as I've been adding verses to the database of curious Quran verses I'm creating, and I came across Quran 2:173 which got me thinking. The verse says this:
"He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of Allah. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful."
Every single one of the translations into English Quranx lists (seventeen in total - at the time I posted this) uses the words "flesh of swine" so there can be no doubt as to the Arabic...

What the verse is saying is that it is only the flesh (fat, skin and muscle) of the pig that Allah forbids people to eat. So eating offal from a pig is fine according to the Quran? One might say: "Well, it's obvious that the entire pig is Haram so there's no need for a discussion!" But is this really the case? Why does the verse use the word flesh when it could simply say swine? Could it be that the Quran is not being clear enough? Why would Allah mention flesh but not organs, bones and hooves?

What I'm saying is that the organs, bones and hooves of a pig are actually Halal because the verse is only specifying pig flesh as being Haram (therefore eating offal form a pig is okay according to the Quran). Organs, bones and hooves don't count as flesh and never have done. Surely, if this was a divine book then it would know that organs, bones and hooves are not counted as flesh (people just assume, wrongly it appears, that all of a pig is Haram). I don't know why anyone would want to eat hooves or bone (unless they were desperate for nourishment) but I know that animal organs are popular with some people. And, by the way, I have eaten animal organs before and I can inform you that the heart of a sheep is quite nice.

As I was curious I did some digging, or rather searching, for the words "flesh of swine". I knew that the Quran has habit of repeating itself and, as I suspected, there are other verses that say only the flesh of a pig is forbidden to eat. Like with Quran 2:173, all of the English translations of the below verses listed at Quranx use the words "flesh of swine".

Quran 16:115:
"He has only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and any (food) over which the name of other than Allah has been invoked. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

Quran 6:145:
"Say: "I find not in the message received by me by inspiration any (meat) forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine,- for it is an abomination - or, what is impious, (meat) on which a name has been invoked, other than Allah's". But (even so), if a person is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- thy Lord is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

Quran 5:3:
"Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

P.S. If it's not dead it's not classed as meat, right? Just curious is all.

[CapnAwesome]

You know Islam and Judaism are bullshit when they forbid bacon.

[JesusHChrist]

And shrimp...what kind of monster forbids shrimp?

[vorlon13]

So, the Islamic hordes can swig hog saliva to their hearts content ???

How 'bout hog menstrual flow ????

[ReptilianPeon]

You know Islam and Judaism are bullshit when they forbid bacon.

The irony is that there are Halal meats, such as lamb, that can actually be way more unhealthy than pork. As an example, many cuts of Lamb contain so much more fat than a typical cut of pork. I'm sure that the various schools of thought have Fatwas relating to pork so my point is simply to note the Quran contradicts anybody who says the entire pig is Haram. There's probably something in the Hadith too but: 1. I haven't checked and 2. I like to stick to the Quran as much as possible because the is no consensus on which Hadith are authentic and there are at least three different collections (Ibadi, Shia, Sunni) floating about.

Quran 4:28 bluntly says that Humans were created weak so I struggle to understand why Allah is leaving Quran interpretation and Fatwa issuing up to Humans.
"Allah doth wish to lighten your (difficulties): For man was created Weak (in flesh)."

[CapnAwesome]

You know Islam and Judaism are bullshit when they forbid bacon.

The irony is that there are Halal meats, such as lamb, that can actually be way more unhealthy than pork. As an example, many cuts of Lamb contain so much more fat than a typical cut of pork. I'm sure that the various schools of thought have Fatwas relating to pork so my point is simply to note the Quran contradicts anybody who says the entire pig is Haram. There's probably something in the Hadith too but: 1. I haven't checked and 2. I like to stick to the Quran as much as possible because the is no consensus on which Hadith are authentic and there are at least three different collections (Ibadi, Shia, Sunni) floating about.

Quran 4:28 bluntly says that Humans were created weak so I struggle to understand why Allah is leaving Quran interpretation and Fatwa issuing up to Humans.
"Allah doth wish to lighten your (difficulties): For man was created Weak (in flesh)."

Your point is well taken however I don't really worry about this small contradictions in the qu'ran or bible myself. I mean the qu'ran also says that the world was created in 5-10 days and is flat like a carpet or something like that. I don't think a minor inconsistency about what part of the pig is okay to eat is all that important.

[ReptilianPeon]

Your point is well taken however I don't really worry about this small contradictions in the qu'ran or bible myself. I mean the qu'ran also says that the world was created in 5-10 days and is flat like a carpet or something like that. I don't think a minor inconsistency about what part of the pig is okay to eat is all that important.

I accept that. As I found it funny I thought I'd share my thoughts. I do have more serious topics in the pipeline however.

In regard to the Quran saying that the Earth is spread out: There are numerous verses that say that and also compared the Earth to a bed and a carpet. However, naturally, people will deny that the Quran says that the Earth is flat and claim that it appears flat from the perspective of a person on the ground. Stupid if you ask me.

[CapnAwesome]

Your point is well taken however I don't really worry about this small contradictions in the qu'ran or bible myself. I mean the qu'ran also says that the world was created in 5-10 days and is flat like a carpet or something like that. I don't think a minor inconsistency about what part of the pig is okay to eat is all that important.

I accept that. As I found it funny I thought I'd share my thoughts. I do have more serious topics in the pipeline however.

In regard to the Quran saying that the Earth is spread out: There are numerous verses that say that and also compared the Earth to a bed and a carpet. However, naturally, people will deny that the Quran says that the Earth is flat and claim that it appears flat from the perspective of a person on the ground. Stupid if you ask me.

Out of curiosity, do you come from a Muslim background? You seem pretty well versed in it.

[ReptilianPeon]

Out of curiosity, do you come from a Muslim background? You seem pretty well versed in it.

I'm flattered that you would even think/ask that, but no. All I've done is read the Quran for myself, in my own time. Maybe I'll post something about my interest in the Quran in Off Topic section at some point. I've got something written on why I became interested in the Quran (and never the Bible or any other texts).