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RE: CAR BRANDS
March 25, 2015 at 2:01 pm
(March 25, 2015 at 9:31 am)Napoléon Wrote: (March 24, 2015 at 11:50 pm)Drich Wrote: Those aren't real cars.
Ferrari. BMW. Mercedes. Rolls-Royce. Aston Martin. Alfa Romeo. Audi.
Every single one of those shits all over any American car company.
You know Napo you're right. American cars suck so bad there is absolutely no reason to compare say a $65,000 BMW M4 with a $60,000 Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat. That is unless you actually wanted the better performance available in the Challenger due to its extra 250ish horsepower for less money. 
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015...-coupe.pdf
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015...ellcat.pdf
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RE: CAR BRANDS
March 25, 2015 at 2:50 pm
(This post was last modified: March 25, 2015 at 2:59 pm by Napoléon.)
(March 25, 2015 at 1:19 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: It's no Nissan Leaf.
It's an electric car that does 0-60 in 3.2 secs and does 151 mph. It's no slouch.
I am ready for electric cars. I don't think the technology is 100% there yet, but it's fucking time.
I never mentioned anything about performance. I have no doubts it would perform just as well as petrol/diesel cars. I don't even knock what Tesla are doing in the slightest, they make some amazing shit.
But a petrol/diesel car is fundamentally different to an electric one. I believe Top Gear made a point in one of their shows remarking on the end of gas consuming cars as a sad thing. One of the reasons petrol heads will never have the same passion for electrics is that there's an element of sterility to electric cars. They have no personality, if you will. There's something fundamentally exciting about hearing a V8 roar up and you won't ever get that from an electric car company. It's for that reason, amongst many others that differentiates electric cars from normal cars, that they can't be compared. Not now, not ever IMO. You can maybe compare how they perform as a utility, in terms of whether they perform their role better as transport. They may well exceed what normal cars do right now in this regard in only a few years perhaps, but I don't think you will ever be able to compare them in terms of machines that are built to thrill you and give you enjoyment. People just don't enjoy electric cars the same way they do petrol cars.
That's ofcourse not to say electric cars are altogether boring, or that they can't be exciting. But it's not the same thing hearing a petrol car.
In case you have a spare 8 minutes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gFGX43vubM
(March 25, 2015 at 2:01 pm)popeyespappy Wrote: You know Napo you're right. American cars suck so bad there is absolutely no reason to compare say a $65,000 BMW M4 with a $60,000 Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat. That is unless you actually wanted the better performance available in the Challenger due to its extra 250ish horsepower for less money.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015...-coupe.pdf
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015...ellcat.pdf
Typical Yank way of thinking. More == better.
Bet that thing can go in a straight line really well. FYI more horsepower does not equal better 'performance'. Strange, I don't see many dodge touring cars but BMW have touring cars in almost every class available. Including the M4. Says it all over their ability to actually drive consistently well. And around corners.
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RE: CAR BRANDS
March 25, 2015 at 3:05 pm
(This post was last modified: March 25, 2015 at 3:05 pm by popeyespappy.)
Sorry but according to the test sheets the Challenger gives up very little in the corners to the M4 despite the extra 1000 lbs.
Oh and less brake fade too.
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RE: CAR BRANDS
March 25, 2015 at 3:20 pm
(March 25, 2015 at 3:05 pm)popeyespappy Wrote: Sorry but according to the test sheets the Challenger gives up very little in the corners to the M4 despite the extra 1000 lbs.
Oh and less brake fade too.
Oh well it must be true then.
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RE: CAR BRANDS
March 25, 2015 at 4:03 pm
(This post was last modified: March 25, 2015 at 4:05 pm by SteelCurtain.)
(March 25, 2015 at 2:50 pm)Napoléon Wrote: I never mentioned anything about performance. I have no doubts it would perform just as well as petrol/diesel cars. I don't even knock what Tesla are doing in the slightest, they make some amazing shit.
But a petrol/diesel car is fundamentally different to an electric one. I believe Top Gear made a point in one of their shows remarking on the end of gas consuming cars as a sad thing. One of the reasons petrol heads will never have the same passion for electrics is that there's an element of sterility to electric cars. They have no personality, if you will. There's something fundamentally exciting about hearing a V8 roar up and you won't ever get that from an electric car company. It's for that reason, amongst many others that differentiates electric cars from normal cars, that they can't be compared. Not now, not ever IMO. You can maybe compare how they perform as a utility, in terms of whether they perform their role better as transport. They may well exceed what normal cars do right now in this regard in only a few years perhaps, but I don't think you will ever be able to compare them in terms of machines that are built to thrill you and give you enjoyment. People just don't enjoy electric cars the same way they do petrol cars.
That's ofcourse not to say electric cars are altogether boring, or that they can't be exciting. But it's not the same thing hearing a petrol car.
In case you have a spare 8 minutes: I fucking love Top Gear. I hope they don't sack Clarkson.
I agree with everything you said. The sterility of the electric car and the lack of the thrill you would get when you hear the burble of the American V-8 or the hum of a Ferrari V-12 or even something like the spool of a turbo is something that cannot be replaced and is integral to the driving experience.
There is an entire industry that is ready to tackle this problem as much as it can be tackled. I don't know how successful it would be, but there are people that design what a car sounds like now. Every single manufacturer employs a team that designs what you hear when you turn the key or push the pedal. From the aforementioned burble in a Mustang to next to nothing the the MB S-Class, it's all by design. So it shouldn't be all that different if an electric sports car has a manufactured sound or feel. There will be an extra layer of cognitive dissonance in knowing that the sound isn't created by the engine, but the mechanics of driving other than the sound will move forward just as it has. The power plant is all that's changing here. Cars nowadays are very sterile as it is. Drive by wire is becoming ubiquitous; that feel you get where the wheels are connected to the steering wheel is going away. Suspensions on high end vehicles are more and more electromagnetic, able to be tuned from the cockpit to multiple different settings.
The point is that the mechanical, sort of "rope and pulley" feel of driving a car has been impinged on in so many different ways over the past 100 years, and the powerplant is the last bastion. I don't think the petrol car will be fully replaced in my lifetime, maybe when the petrol runs out--if/when that happens. I just think companies like Tesla are monumentally important in preparing us for a time when petrol becomes scarce. And the infrastructure that Elon Musk is creating, at least in America, is important.
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RE: CAR BRANDS
March 25, 2015 at 4:13 pm
(March 25, 2015 at 4:03 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: I fucking love Top Gear. I hope they don't sack Clarkson.
He's gone.
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-32052736
Which he probably deserves after punching the producer in the face. A fact that doesn't seem to be in dispute by anyone including Clarkson.
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RE: CAR BRANDS
March 25, 2015 at 4:25 pm
(This post was last modified: March 25, 2015 at 4:26 pm by SteelCurtain.)
(March 25, 2015 at 4:13 pm)popeyespappy Wrote: (March 25, 2015 at 4:03 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: I fucking love Top Gear. I hope they don't sack Clarkson.
He's gone.
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-32052736
Which he probably deserves after punching the producer in the face. A fact that doesn't seem to be in dispute by anyone including Clarkson.
Nooooooo!
He totally deserved it. He's a motoring diva if there ever was one. You can't punch people at work. Period. Even if that producer was the shittiest producer that ever existed, which I'm not saying he was, you don't punch him for not getting you dinner. Clarkson is a smug prick, but I love him nonetheless. Without him the show would be like Mythbusters without Adam Savage.
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I imagine they'll reboot the show on Sky 1 or some other channel with Hammond and May as well. Clarkson can say more offensive shit there. The track isn't owned by the BBC, but rather a private group, so they could port that over. I hope they continue the show, I love it too much.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: CAR BRANDS
March 25, 2015 at 4:28 pm
(March 25, 2015 at 2:50 pm)Napoléon Wrote: One of the reasons petrol heads will never have the same passion for electrics is that there's an element of sterility to electric cars. They have no personality, if you will.
No cars have personality ... probably because they're not persons.
I see this same discussion in relation to guitars of various brands, and it's horseshit, through and through.
(March 25, 2015 at 2:50 pm)Napoléon Wrote: There's something fundamentally exciting about hearing a V8 roar up and you won't ever get that from an electric car company.
That's called "noise". You can program a computer to make it, too.
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RE: CAR BRANDS
March 25, 2015 at 4:37 pm
(March 25, 2015 at 4:25 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: I imagine they'll reboot the show on Sky 1 or some other channel with Hammond and May as well. Clarkson can say more offensive shit there. The track isn't owned by the BBC, but rather a private group, so they could port that over. I hope they continue the show, I love it too much.
The BBC is planning to continue the show without Clarkson.
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RE: CAR BRANDS
March 25, 2015 at 4:44 pm
(March 25, 2015 at 4:37 pm)popeyespappy Wrote: The BBC is planning to continue the show without Clarkson. Yeah, but both Hammond and May's contracts are up at the end of this series.
I think everyone involved knows that without Clarkson the show will go the way of every one of Hammond or May's side projects.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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