Indiana's Govenor Signs 'Religious Freedom' Bill

[robvalue]

What the actual fuck man?

If christians woke up and all transformed into a t-rex, then we'd all be killed! Society can't have too many christians in it.

What unbelievable nonsense. You're really reaching now. Why are you talking about impossible scenarios? You think there's the slightest danger of humans being underpopulated? "Gay" is not catching.

Why do you need to appeal to the impossible to justify your prejudice? This is what I'm talking about. It can't be your real reason, but it makes no sense.

[Heywood]

Wait, you just said you don't think they are equal. But then you're saying they can only be equal if there is a god. You're not even being consistent.

Nature doesn't intend anything. It's not a sentient being. And one more time: life is not a competition. Give me one good reason why I should refuse service to someone because I have personally evaluated them and decided they are "inferior"? Am I actively trying to oust them from society for the good of us all? Should I just bash people to death in the street if I think they are a detriment to society?

You seem to trying to use some sort of "survival of the fittest" argument to justify homophobia. And apparently, you also think men should be refused service if people feel the desire to...?

I think you have some very confused ideas about this.

God doesn't have to create them equal.  God can create them equal or God can create them not equal.  However if they are truly equal as you claim, it is much much more likely that they are equal because an intelligent God designed it that way rather than the "luck would have it" that nature would produce them that way.

I can't give you one good reason why you should refuse to service someone else.  You have to give one good reason. You have to speak for yourself.  My position is that you have the right to be self determinant in most circumstances and if you don't want to serve someone, the state shouldn't force you to serve someone.

Should a baker be forced to bake a cake with an anti gay message written across it?  No, they should have the right to refuse to provide service to homophobes if they want.   Are you not actively trying to oust homophobes from society by forcing bakers to bake cakes for gays even if they do not want too?

Your whole argument really just boils down to you attempting to force your values on others.  Your position isn't consistent.  It amounts to "people can discriminate here but they can't discriminate here".  My argument is let people be free.  When people are truly free, things have a tendency to work themselves out. 

  

---

What the actual fuck man?

If christians woke up and all transformed into a t-rex, then we'd all be killed! Society can't have too many christians in it.

What unbelievable nonsense. You're really reaching now. Why are you talking about impossible scenarios? You think there's the slightest danger of humans being underpopulated? "Gay" is not catching.

Why do you need to appeal to the impossible to justify your prejudice? This is what I'm talking about. It can't be your real reason, but it makes no sense.

You're straw manning here.

[robvalue]

I give up.

[Ravenshire]

What the fuck man?

That doesn't make any sense. No rational person claims either is superior, it's not a competition.

But if I "accept" that, then no, they should be treated the same. Why shouldn't they be? Should someone less intelligent than me be treated worse? Someone worse than me at basketball?

You say "no rational person claims either is superior" but I provided you with a thought experiment which shows they are not equivalents.  If they are not equivalents then one is superior than the other.  Theists have a rational basis for their beliefs that heterosexuality is superior to homosexuality.  Moving back toward the subject of this thread.....a theistic baker has a rational basis to differentiate a homosexual wedding from a straight wedding.  If they have a rational basis to differentiate, doesn't that mean they have a rational reason to discriminate?

By your 'logic,' anyone who is infertile is inferior to those who are fertile and therefore should be shunned by society just like you christers would like to do to gays.

Face it Woody, you assholes are looking for excuses to not only harbor you bigoted views, but to express them. No, not all people are equal, but they are supposed to be equal under the law. Guess what. That means you don't get to kick the gays out.

---

Try this one on for size.

If the gay marriage is performed at a church then it is a religious ceremony. In that case the baker is being forced to participate in a religious ceremony. That means, the state is establishing a religion and forcing everyone to participate.

Chad, you're just flailing about to justify your bigotry.

[Heywood]

You say "no rational person claims either is superior" but I provided you with a thought experiment which shows they are not equivalents.  If they are not equivalents then one is superior than the other.  Theists have a rational basis for their beliefs that heterosexuality is superior to homosexuality.  Moving back toward the subject of this thread.....a theistic baker has a rational basis to differentiate a homosexual wedding from a straight wedding.  If they have a rational basis to differentiate, doesn't that mean they have a rational reason to discriminate?

By your 'logic,' anyone who is infertile is inferior to those who are fertile and therefore should be shunned by society just like you christers would like to do to gays.

Face it Woody, you assholes are looking for excuses to not only harbor you bigoted views, but to express them. No, not all people are equal, but they are supposed to be equal under the law. Guess what. That means you don't get to kick the gays out.

No Snake,  You are strawmanning too.  I never said anyone should be shunned from society.  I said individuals have the right of self determination.  I may be an asshole, but you are a moron.

[Ravenshire]

By your kind of analysis, a sexual orientation's value being established by its impact on our breeding of children, if we made half of our population gay, it would potentially solve or at least relieve or problem of overpopulation. Therefore, by your highly questionable analysis of a orientation's "value", homosexuality would be "superior". 

If half the population woke to find themselves gay, that would be devastating to humanity.  The fertility rate would drop like a rock.  Humanity can't tolerate very many gays.

Bullshit! Or are you going to claim that the human population has never been less than 3 billion? I'd love to see you try to back up that claim.

---

By your 'logic,' anyone who is infertile is inferior to those who are fertile and therefore should be shunned by society just like you christers would like to do to gays.

Face it Woody, you assholes are looking for excuses to not only harbor you bigoted views, but to express them. No, not all people are equal, but they are supposed to be equal under the law. Guess what. That means you don't get to kick the gays out.

No Snake,  You are strawmanning too.  I never said anyone should be shunned from society.  I said individuals have the right of self determination.  I may be an asshole, but you are a moron.

No, you're not an asshole. You're a hateful bigot. You just want to cover your bigotry with justifications. Sorry, but we can see through your bullshit.

Do you even understand what "equal under the law" means?

[Heywood]

No, you're not an asshole. You're a hateful bigot. You just want to cover your bigotry with justifications. Sorry, but we can see through your bullshit.

Do you even understand what "equal under the law" means?

Homophobes should be given the same treatment as homos.  Bakers should not be allowed to discriminate against homophobes.

Is that the kind of "equal under the law" you are advocating?  Or are you advocating that everyone is equal under the law but some are more equal than others?

I do advocate "equal under the law".  Everyone is equally entitled to discriminate.

[DeistPaladin]

Wouldn't a dropping fertility rate be a good thing with 7 billion people on the planet? I think we could stand to have fewer children right about now. 

[Ravenshire]

I do advocate "equal under the law".  Everyone is equally entitled to discriminate.

Protected discrimination, what you bigots are after, is institutionalized discrimination protected by law, not equality under the law.

[robvalue]

I can't believe what I'm hearing today. I don't think I could do a better job of making religion look repulsive if I made a sock account and pretended to be a theist. I applaud the efforts on our behalf for the benefit of lurkers reading the forum.

I told my wife about some of the ridiculous arguments being put forward to justify this blatant bigotry, and she made a good point. Even if every single person woke up gay tomorrow, it wouldn't make any difference. People would carry on having children through sperm donation and surrogates. Again, it doesn't even make any sense. It's another ludicrous rationalization to cover simple bigotry.

It's called homophobia for a reason. Clearly these people are scared of gays, want to see them ostracized and will make up any nonsense to convince themselves it's not just pure fear.

Can't run from your own shadow though.