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RE: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief
March 31, 2015 at 8:08 pm
(March 31, 2015 at 7:50 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote: (March 31, 2015 at 7:23 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: I forget the guy's name, but I loved the interview with the ex-Scientologist, who upon reaching OT-III, was given the whole Xenu story. The way he retold his whole "the fuck is this?" reaction was priceless.
Seriously, that shit reads like fourth-rate science fiction - horrible, even by LRH's standards.
I think I heard that story somewhere but, like you, can't remember who it was.
Paul Haggis. He wrote and directed Crash, and I think he wrote Million Dollar Baby too.
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RE: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief
March 31, 2015 at 10:56 pm
Sadly I do not have HBO but after reading a few posts, i decided to YouTube a BBC Documentary on them. Now I investigated this "religion" (cough.. corporation) when I was young (14ish) and left it at that. I couldn't believe what I was seeing on this Doc. by BBC. It was crazy. I further Googled some information on the price plans and wow... its expensive (and I thought the Mormon Church was expensive lol). I would like to make a side note: There view on Mental Health things are very inaccurate of present day medicine. I will admit with my knowledge in this field of study that today's medicine does have some bad effects and the Mental Health System needs to be reformed... but the things they showed about the past reminds me of "possesion of demons" kind of things that Christian's used. If someone who was seriously mentally ill were to just choose one day to take up Scientology and go off there meds and use there teachings... it could be fatal. Scientifically these meds change the brain into a better stable person... some can debate the effects on this and I will in no way deny that side effects of some of the meds can be harmful in the long term... with each new generation of drugs in the mental health field it is getting better... Please do not think I am a "expert" in any way but the forms of treatment I have seen through Google studies is not only extremely dangerous but could be fatal (suicide).
As far as L.Ron.Hubbard. He was a science fiction writer... dude... like for real... the higher operating level's secrets are something I could read about if I picked up a book at the library.
I look forward to obtain somehow through a friend a copy of this HBO version as it is probably more up to date then this BBC Doc. I just watched.
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RE: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief
March 31, 2015 at 11:18 pm
I've seen enough shows and interviews with ex-scientologists that I've probably heard a lot of the stuff in this doc. The dude that took over for L. Ron is pretty much a straight-up psychopath. I think one of the worst things I've heard was the accusation that they'll basically ship you off and enslave you at their Sea Organization if you're high up in the organization and become a problem.
Another "genius" of Hubbard was to inflate the ego of the believer. Not too unlike Christians being told they'll see eternal paradise for being a chosen one, Scientologists are taught that they're always the most capable person in the room, no matter what the task. If a man has a heart attack, Scientologists believe they are more qualified to help than a doctor.
The worst part, though, is their view on psychiatry. I can't imagine the damage they've done with that one.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief
April 1, 2015 at 3:59 am
Yup, the more qualified than a doctor part also was an issue in cruises famous bizarre interview . I wonder though, what the scientologist would *do* in that situation concretely!
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
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RE: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief
April 1, 2015 at 11:18 am
(This post was last modified: April 1, 2015 at 11:19 am by Clueless Morgan.)
Okay, watched Going Clear last night. I thought it was good, interesting and engaging, but didn't personally find too much "new" information than what I already knew about Scientology. I knew about the Sea Org and the forced abortions and that they separated children from their parents; I knew about the Hole, David Miscavige's prison camp place, and that he would play games with them where they basically fought to stay; I knew about members being pressured to sell books, pressured to keep donating money, and pressured to keep buying new copies of the books they already had; I knew about the ever-increasing additional levels; I had even watched Jason Beghe's 2-hour interview twice before.
I didn't know a great deal about Tom Cruise's story with Scientology other than the generals (I knew he was besties with Miscavige and their grip on him is damn-near unbreakable at this point). I didn't know Spanky's story in particular, or that John Travolta is apparently in the know about a lot of the darker sides of the organization and how she was treated. And I didn't realize that Marty Rathbun had remarried, or that his wife had filed a lawsuit against David Miscavige - that's fucking awesome! I did a few minutes of googling to see what the status of the lawsuit was and found this:
Judge: Scientology leader not required to give deposition 
http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology...on/2189099
Vox Populi Wrote:Sadly I do not have HBO but after reading a few posts, i decided to YouTube a BBC Documentary on them. Now I investigated this "religion" (cough.. corporation) when I was young (14ish) and left it at that. I couldn't believe what I was seeing on this Doc. by BBC. It was crazy.
The interesting part of having seen Secrets of Scientology (which is, I assume, the BBC documentary you watched) was the appearance of Mike Rinder in that documentary and his appearance now. He has changed so much that I had a hard time finding him on the cast list of Going Clear because he looks so different than he did in that documentary! (I couldn't remember his name - I get him mixed up with Marty Rathbun - so I was reliant entirely on pictures of him)
From the BBC Panorama doc Secrets of Scientology (He's the one in the middle; on the Left is Tommy Davis, John Sweeny is on the right):
![[Image: TommyMikeJohn.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=tonyortega.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2FTommyMikeJohn.jpg)
Mike Rinder's appearance now:
![[Image: Mike-Rinder.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=mypullzsone.mikerindersblog.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F03%2FMike-Rinder.jpg)
One of the few things that I didn't know what that when he appeared in the SoS documentary he had been temporarily released from the Hole that David Miscavige would keep people in and basically torture them, he went out and did his enforcer work, and then returned to the Hole!
I'm so glad that he got out and that he's looking so healthy.
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
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RE: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief
April 1, 2015 at 6:08 pm
History of Man.PDF - matrixfiles.com.
If you are that interested in weird religion, Elron Hubbard's "The history of Man" (originally "What to Audit") will be right up your ally. More weirdness crammed in a mere 90 pages than about any other book you will ever read. Googling for it lead to the above. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you will wreck your keyboard if you try to drink anything while reading this. Originally written in 1951, this book has been on Scientology's bookshelves ever since. A true classic of grotesque religious literature.
Stop laughing damn you! This is science!
Cheerful Charlie
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RE: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief
April 1, 2015 at 7:35 pm
(April 1, 2015 at 6:08 pm)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: History of Man.PDF - matrixfiles.com.
If you are that interested in weird religion, Elron Hubbard's "The history of Man" (originally "What to Audit") will be right up your ally. More weirdness crammed in a mere 90 pages than about any other book you will ever read. Googling for it lead to the above. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you will wreck your keyboard if you try to drink anything while reading this. Originally written in 1951, this book has been on Scientology's bookshelves ever since. A true classic of grotesque religious literature.
Stop laughing damn you! This is science!
Dude, it's L. Ron Hubbard. 
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
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RE: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief
April 1, 2015 at 7:38 pm
Quote:The interesting part of having seen Secrets of Scientology (which is, I assume, the BBC documentary you watched) was the appearance of Mike Rinder in that documentary and his appearance now. He has changed so much that I had a hard time finding him on the cast list of Going Clear because he looks so different than he did in that documentary! (I couldn't remember his name - I get him mixed up with Marty Rathbun - so I was reliant entirely on pictures of him)
From the BBC Panorama doc Secrets of Scientology (He's the one in the middle; on the Left is Tommy Davis, John Sweeny is on the right):
Yep that was the documentary I watched. He DOES look way different! But man I like him... he is so intriguing (spell error?)
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RE: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief
April 1, 2015 at 7:44 pm
(This post was last modified: April 1, 2015 at 7:46 pm by Aractus.)
(April 1, 2015 at 6:08 pm)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: If you are that interested in weird religion, Elron Hubbard's "The history of Man" (originally "What to Audit") will be right up your ally. More weirdness crammed in a mere 90 pages than about any other book you will ever read.
You mean L. Ron.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
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RE: Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief
April 1, 2015 at 7:49 pm
(April 1, 2015 at 7:44 pm)Aractus Wrote: (April 1, 2015 at 6:08 pm)Cheerful Charlie Wrote: If you are that interested in weird religion, Elron Hubbard's "The history of Man" (originally "What to Audit") will be right up your ally. More weirdness crammed in a mere 90 pages than about any other book you will ever read.
You mean L. Ron.
I thought it was Elrond Hubbard. You know, Rivendell? Last Homely House and all that jazz.
No?
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