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Is Religion Harmful?
#1
Is Religion Harmful?
Is religion harmful?

Religions are harmful because they are inherently irrational, meaning that they encourage people to not be open to changing their mind, to block avenues to finding the truth. Now I'm not saying that all religions do this equally, nor that only religions have this problem.
To explain why religions are inherently irrational, I have to explain some background information about the relationship between people and ideas, what memes are, and their role in people's thoughts, emotions, and actions.


Like all memes, religions are ideas that spread from person to person. Now some memes spread because people find them useful, like the wheel, while other memes spread because they encourage their holders to not reject them and to spread them. These memes effectively work for the memes gain instead of the person's gain.
These can be categorized as rational and anti-rational memes. Rational memes are ones that people find useful and which evolve over generations, improving iteratively. Notice how we use much improved wheels today compared to the stone ones our ancestors used.
In contrast, anti-rational memes do not spread by being useful to the people that have them, and instead they spread by putting pressure on the holders of these memes to refrain from questioning them. And when a person acts on these memes, in lots of cases this puts pressure on other people to adopt these memes, thus helping the meme to spread further. Take for example the case of Muslims threatening to kill those who leave Islam. This puts pressure on people to hide their disbelief of Islam and to continue sending their kids to the Mosque, helping the meme to survive into the next generation.


So, how do anti-rational memes work? One way to explain this is that these memes hijack the person's creativity for their own ends. The memes effectively work to keep themselves from being criticized. Criticism of the meme puts pressure on the person to stop thinking, and to react emotionally. This works towards encouraging the person to refrain from rejecting the meme and encourages the person to spread it further.
Now some people think that this is dehumanizing, but that's a mistake. I'll clarify this by explaining again in a different way.
Memes are not like viruses that invade people. A person is basically a bunch of ideas, many of which are memes that he got from other people. Many of these memes are learned, held, and spread unconsciously. And many of them exist non-explicitly, meaning that the person that has the meme doesn't know how to explain it in words and instead he knows it as a vague feeling. And most people today don't recognize their vague feelings as ideas that they learned from other people. Instead, they assume that those feelings are genetically determined or whatever.


Consider the example of the feeling of shame. Shame is not inborn. It's learned from other people. And it's a mistake. When someone feels shame, that does not encourage him to learn why he is wrong about what he did, which is what he needs in order to change his mind. Instead, feeling shame encourages him to stop thinking and to avoid doing the behavior out of fear of social punishment. So the person effectively punishes himself so that he prevents himself from doing the behavior, instead of finding out the truth about whether the behavior is right or wrong.


So to review, here are three equivalent expressions:
1. An anti-rational meme hijacked the persons creativity for its own goals, I'll call them goals A B and C.
Consider the shame example. When a parent tries to make his child feel shame to try to control him, and if it's not effective, the parent will use his creativity to come up with new ways to try to make his child feel bad. So this is a case of the meme hijacking the parents creativity for its own gain. The shame meme doesn't have its own creativity, so it needs the persons creativity to try to survive and spread.
This next version is clear that this a moral issue, that there is a choice being made.


2. A person chose to act on one of his ideas, to the exclusion of its rivals, and that idea's goals are A B and C.
This makes it clear that it's an idea in the persons mind. This is important because people have the ability to reject ideas. They can change their minds.
So this implies that in a court of law, your actions are attributed to you, regardless of what anti-rational memes you have. Those memes are you. You are your memes.
Here's another version that clarifies who is responsible.
3. One part of you X has hijacked another part of you Y to fulfill X's goals A B and C.


As I said before, religions are not equal. Some religions are worse than others in how much they pressure people to refrain from criticizing the religion. For example, Muslims puts pressure on people to kill those who openly leave Islam, and this isn't an issue in any other religions.
But that doesn't change the fact that all religions have a component in them that certain parts of it are supposed to be accepted uncritically. For example, in Christianity you're supposed to have faith in the Christian God. This means you are expected to ignore criticisms and rival ideas, in other words, to arbitrarily accept one idea over all of it's rivals.
Now that's not to say that all non-religious ideas don't have this quality of having parts that people are pressured to accept uncritically. Lots of ideas do. So this bad feature of religions is not exclusive to just religions.
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#2
RE: Is Religion Harmful?
Yes religion is harmful.

Now that should not give atheists licence to make attempts at using political force to force religion out of existence on a planet of 7 billion.

It is poison much like saying it is stupid not to wear your seat belt, or pretend guns are toys. It is harmful but also unrealistic to think you can force it out of existence. You cant remove MT Fuji either, but it is still a volcano even when dormant.

Atheists should also not seek a utopia either, if we become that political ourselves then what should be a mere "off" position would at that point become an attempt at a utopia, and there will never be anything such as a utopia. You can only work to foster education of reality and foster better management of our imperfect reality.

YES religion is harmful, and dangerous, but so is thinking you can set up any type of utopia where we all are on the same page.
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#3
RE: Is Religion Harmful?
If you think about all the resources and time that are wasted on religion, there is harm right there. Humanity is facing what could be actual extinction if we don't solve some of our looming issues, and we are diddling around, wasting our precious time and resources indulging in childish playing about with invisible friends.
...it is common knowledge that the upper third, centered in Flagstaff, is Alta Arizona; the lower third, centered in Tucson, is Baja Arizona; and the middle third, centered in Phoenix, is Caca Arizona. Simple as ABC...

http://www.bandersnatch.com/bajaz.htm
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#4
RE: Is Religion Harmful?
(April 2, 2015 at 10:53 am)Desert Diva Wrote: If you think about all the resources and time that are wasted on religion, there is harm right there.  Humanity is facing what could be actual extinction if we don't solve some of our looming issues, and we are diddling around, wasting our precious time and resources indulging in childish playing about with invisible friends.

I agree, but even with that I am still not willing to reduce myself to that level to make things work. If humanity is going to wipe themselves out needlessly I still would rather go down not adding to the violence myself.
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#5
RE: Is Religion Harmful?
(April 2, 2015 at 10:57 am)Brian37 Wrote:
(April 2, 2015 at 10:53 am)Desert Diva Wrote: If you think about all the resources and time that are wasted on religion, there is harm right there.  Humanity is facing what could be actual extinction if we don't solve some of our looming issues, and we are diddling around, wasting our precious time and resources indulging in childish playing about with invisible friends.

I agree, but even with that I am still not willing to reduce myself to that level to make things work. If humanity is going to wipe themselves out needlessly I still would rather go down not adding to the violence myself.

If I were a religious person, I'd stay off the subject of violence.  You all have already added enough fucking violence to society that you have no moral high ground on this issue.
...it is common knowledge that the upper third, centered in Flagstaff, is Alta Arizona; the lower third, centered in Tucson, is Baja Arizona; and the middle third, centered in Phoenix, is Caca Arizona. Simple as ABC...

http://www.bandersnatch.com/bajaz.htm
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#6
RE: Is Religion Harmful?
That is the point right there, you are absolutely right, labels do not automatically magically make an individual moral, not even the word "atheist" does that.

I wasn't claiming any moral high ground in that. I said I don't want to add to the bad side of our species evolution. We do tend to unfortunately lean to the quick satisfaction of violence, I never claimed atheists were incapable of that. I was talking about ME as an individual.
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#7
RE: Is Religion Harmful?
(April 2, 2015 at 11:05 am)Brian37 Wrote: That is the point right there, you are absolutely right, labels do not automatically magically make an individual moral, not even the word "atheist" does that.

I wasn't claiming any moral high ground in that. I said I don't want to add to the bad side of our species evolution. We do tend to unfortunately lean to the quick satisfaction of violence, I never claimed atheists were incapable of that. I was talking about ME as an individual.

Brian, I suggest you stop using the word evolution until you find out what evolution is. 
...it is common knowledge that the upper third, centered in Flagstaff, is Alta Arizona; the lower third, centered in Tucson, is Baja Arizona; and the middle third, centered in Phoenix, is Caca Arizona. Simple as ABC...

http://www.bandersnatch.com/bajaz.htm
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#8
RE: Is Religion Harmful?
Yep. Religion is exceedingly harmful for a variety of reasons. I could talk about it all day. When I get round to it, I'll be filling my website up with why it's so harmful.

It's one of the main reasons I'm trying to be a voice of reason against it, and to support fellow atheists who are suffering at its hands.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
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#9
RE: Is Religion Harmful?
DNA and environment also known as natural selection.

Sorry but the God Delusion by Dawkins explains in scientific terms why god claims and religions pop up from an EVOLUTIONARY standpoint. Now, if you think I am slaughtering the description then read a book from an expert.

As he describes evolutionary wise in his book god belief is a missfire, QUOTE THE GOD DELUSION "The moth mistaking the light bulb for moonlight". Meaning we are literally projecting our desires on the natural world around us.

The other psychological term for that is "anthropomorphism".

So don't listen to me if you do not wish, but I think a PHD biologist knows a bit about evolution.
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#10
RE: Is Religion Harmful?
(April 2, 2015 at 11:38 am)Brian37 Wrote: DNA and environment also known as natural selection.

Sorry but the God Delusion by Dawkins explains in scientific terms why god claims and religions pop up from an EVOLUTIONARY standpoint. Now, if you think I am slaughtering the description then read a book from an expert.

As he describes evolutionary wise in his book god belief is a missfire, QUOTE THE GOD DELUSION "The moth mistaking the light bulb for moonlight". Meaning we are literally projecting our desires on the natural world around us.

The other psychological term for that is "anthropomorphism".

So don't listen to me if you do not wish, but I think a PHD biologist knows a bit about evolution.

This is like watching a 5 year old try to explain string theory.
...it is common knowledge that the upper third, centered in Flagstaff, is Alta Arizona; the lower third, centered in Tucson, is Baja Arizona; and the middle third, centered in Phoenix, is Caca Arizona. Simple as ABC...

http://www.bandersnatch.com/bajaz.htm
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