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RE: The Incredibly Stupid Things (Few, Hopefully) Atheists Say
April 3, 2015 at 5:33 am
The one thing jesus has accomplished more than anything else, whether he existed or not, is confusion.
Alex had it right, we need some sort of slidey scale for him. Thing is, it kind of can't fail, because there's always going to be some drongo called jesus at that time wandering around saying some mental stuff. Stick the hat on him and you're golden! So it's just a matter of what else you can pin on him, and how much that narrows it down to one particular healer/molester. It seems plausible that you can put about 3 or 4 pins in him with a vaguely reasonable confidence... as much confidence as you can have for events that long ago. Ironically the myth seems to have worked backwards from his death, as there are more pins near his head than his ass. I'm very troubled this morning, I'm in a strange mood. A weird mix of emotions, and a desire to start a fist fight with jesus.
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RE: The Incredibly Stupid Things (Few, Hopefully) Atheists Say
April 3, 2015 at 5:42 am
(This post was last modified: April 3, 2015 at 5:43 am by Pizza.)
(April 3, 2015 at 5:33 am)robvalue Wrote: a desire to start a fist fight with jesus.
Don't we all? 
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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RE: The Incredibly Stupid Things (Few, Hopefully) Atheists Say
April 3, 2015 at 5:45 am
(April 3, 2015 at 5:42 am)Pizz-atheist Wrote: (April 3, 2015 at 5:33 am)robvalue Wrote: a desire to start a fist fight with jesus.
Don't we all?
He'd just turn the other cheek 
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RE: The Incredibly Stupid Things (Few, Hopefully) Atheists Say
April 3, 2015 at 7:51 am
(April 3, 2015 at 5:06 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Personally I tend towards there being a David Koresch type charismatic leader who was talked up by his surviving followers.
This is mainly because of the manner of his death which was that of a common criminal and the contortions understaken to explain it as gods will and his crowning moment etc when it is nothing but abject failure.
I cannot buy that the best way to do anything is to get publicly killed then come back and trot about for a few days then bugger off again.
Makes sod all sense.
I agree. Seeing what we have of cults of personality in the 20th/21st century, at the very least, lends plausibility to the central figure idea in the formation of Christianity (not the literal "This is officially Christianity" formation). I'm thinking mainly of how a group of people can be effected by one person, and the subsequent myth-building and validating. Of all the claims made by Christianity, Jesus' historical existence is the least absurd; it's got that going for it.
As far as my atheism goes, I could care less if he existed or not; he sure as hell didn't perform any miracles or sprout from a virgin birth. I guess it's important for the record books. It would be a pretty sweet blow if we could find definitive proof of his non-existence, but no Christian would accept it anyhow. Until then, he may as well have existed, it makes for a less clunky conversation. "A bunch of people of unknown gender and age who lived in an unknown time said to turn the other cheek and then contradicted themselves by taking up arms." Or whatever.
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RE: The Incredibly Stupid Things (Few, Hopefully) Atheists Say
April 3, 2015 at 8:35 am
(This post was last modified: April 3, 2015 at 8:39 am by Nope.)
Quote:"I don't think so. I've even heard that his home town of Nazareth didn't even exist."
I just found this particular quote by chad in a thread on this forum. To be fair, this quote is probably meant tongue in cheek and not meant to be a serious argument. If Chad, like Robo, was just being funny, their quotes should be judged differently. After all, I doubt that Chad believes that Nazareth doesn't exists.
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RE: The Incredibly Stupid Things (Few, Hopefully) Atheists Say
April 3, 2015 at 9:46 am
I never go in the historical Jesus threads, because I can't find enough shits to give to click on them.
Seriously, I'm not even sure of the point of the debate. Of all the things you can shit on Christianity for, this one just seems trivial.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: The Incredibly Stupid Things (Few, Hopefully) Atheists Say
April 3, 2015 at 9:56 am
(This post was last modified: April 3, 2015 at 10:16 am by JuliaL.)
(April 3, 2015 at 5:06 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:
Personally I tend towards there being a David Koresch type charismatic leader who was talked up by his surviving followers.
This is mainly because of the manner of his death which was that of a common criminal and the contortions understaken to explain it as gods will and his crowning moment etc when it is nothing but abject failure.
Makes sod all sense.
I disagree here.
It makes lots of sense if you see it in context as a useful and effective survival strategy for the religion (via its adherents.)
And if stuck to, unassailable.
The apostles lost their meal ticket. They had to do something to eat with their guru gone.
Things not going the way you want them to? Make up a (fictional) narrative that says, it was all planned that way.
Similar argument as a frustrated child in error, "I meant to do that!"
All they had to do to carry on the scam was stick to the talking points.
The Jews have spent thousands of years profiting from a similar strategy.
- We are God's chosen people (so we deserve all the good stuff and can rationalize any nastiness we exhibit.)
- Objection: you got trashed by the (fill in the blank with: Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans.)
- We had a king that didn't (pick one) honor/tithe/sacrifice to God properly and were "chastised."
- We're still God's chosen people.
It's a stubborn kind of trick, but a good one. It works.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? 
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RE: The Incredibly Stupid Things (Few, Hopefully) Atheists Say
April 3, 2015 at 9:56 am
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: The Incredibly Stupid Things (Few, Hopefully) Atheists Say
April 3, 2015 at 10:01 am
I always stay out of arguments like this because history is absolutely not my subject. I've found it best to avoid debating about subjects I know little about. That seems like it should be obvious but people do it all the time.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
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RE: The Incredibly Stupid Things (Few, Hopefully) Atheists Say
April 3, 2015 at 10:05 am
(This post was last modified: April 3, 2015 at 10:06 am by robvalue.)
I just think it's funny to kick jesus while he's down. See if I can kick him so hard he stops existing at all 
Sure, it makes no difference. His birth is obviously a lie, his burial is almost certainly a lie, and the ressurection is well known to be a suspected forgery, and again is obviously a lie. But even if all the shit happened as in the bible, that still proves nothing about why it happened. It just shows he had some mysterious stuff going on.
But as we all know, he was just some dude. If that. And I'll keep on kicking him in the balls.
I think it might help those struggling with the loss of religion to see just how fragile the character is, even historically, let alone all the supernatural stuff. To see what a peon he is and how hard it is even getting him to sit still in history might make new atheists be able to laugh at him and throw off some fear
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