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Should one approach dogmatists in the pulic space?
April 5, 2015 at 3:57 pm
What do I mean by this question? Well, as I'm sure we are all aware, some religionists like go into public places to tell people about what they believe. At present, in my town's shopping district the Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones with a stool. However, there is a Mormon Church and a Mosque in my town too.
The Jehovah's Witnesses are no trouble at all, strangely, as they sit in their chairs quietly (and I think they've finally realised that knocking on doors doesn't do them any favours). However, my hunch - and fear - is that it's only a matter of time until we get some rabble-rousers. I've seen videos of such people in other towns. Sure, such people usually (always) do a disservice to their religion but inevitably there will be some people who will convert. This is either because:
a) The religionist takes advantage of a person's lack of knowledge of a particular religious book (in particular the Quran).
b) The person is already looking for a new religion.
c) The person is vulnerable, and therefore easy to convince (e.g. somebody with a learning disability).
d) Are upset with Western society, or something about it, for whatever reason.
Given that: Is it worth approaching, and hopefully exposing as liars, proselytizers in public spaces if it means even just one person ends up not converting?
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RE: Should one approach dogmatists in the pulic space?
April 5, 2015 at 5:36 pm
In 'merica, you could dress up as Jim Jones, pass out free literature and give out cups of strawberry Flavorade and get converts.
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: Should one approach dogmatists in the pulic space?
April 5, 2015 at 6:10 pm
(This post was last modified: April 5, 2015 at 6:10 pm by AFTT47.)
Definitely. You have the right to the same soapbox they do. The key to success is knowing your audience. People are more likely to be influenced by emotional arguments rather than logical ones. If the gawdsheep makes good emotional arguments and you counter with logical arguments, you will lose. Don't go logical unless they go there first. Destroy their emotional argument.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
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RE: Should one approach dogmatists in the pulic space?
April 5, 2015 at 6:40 pm
(This post was last modified: April 5, 2015 at 6:42 pm by ReptilianPeon.)
Something I forgot to mention is: The sorts of people that are out on the streets are usually people that are going to be harder to convince. The are likely hardline believers who, no matter what a person says, will continue to believe regardless. If they are out on the streets it means that they are probably desperate for brownie points, which entails more conviction than most.
They may even have an audience to please (because many have a YouTube channel or Facebook page) or books to sell. If they do make recordings of conversations then it's obvious they won't want to post conversations with a person who refutes them. Therefore, the counterarguments may not reach the people who need to hear them the most: the followers of the street preacher. The person's followers may be giving to donations to this person so, of course, they don't want appear stupid in front of the camera because they will lose income.
With that in mind, it makes me think: Well, what's the point? They won't be convinced by me. I know it sounds defeatist but there are plenty of people, such as William Lane-Craig, who no matter what is said/presented to them, will continue to believe regardless.
Inevitably, there will be some sincere people out. However, given that most street preachers receive special training from people they regard as demigods (e.g. Zakir Naik and Hamza Tzortsis) I don't think they will be willing to give counterarguments the attention they deserve because they are happy to stick with the misrepresentations of arguments and misrepresentations things people have said provided by their so-called 'scholars'.
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RE: Should one approach dogmatists in the pulic space?
April 5, 2015 at 6:45 pm
At this time i say now we need more intellectuals and innovators in the world.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: Should one approach dogmatists in the pulic space?
April 5, 2015 at 7:23 pm
Depends on the situation. There is a time and a place. If they're someplace inappropriate for either side, I'd pass.
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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RE: Should one approach dogmatists in the pulic space?
April 5, 2015 at 7:28 pm
One good tactic I've heard of is to preach yourself. Stand within earshot of them, and talk about the FSM using similar language to them. You could bring along a cuddly FSM to hold out like they hold their bible, and keep calling it the pasta of God. That way you're making them look ridiculous without ever insulting them.
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RE: Should one approach dogmatists in the pulic space?
April 5, 2015 at 7:31 pm
Depends on how well you know and can present your arguments, you don't want to get caught in a bad argument with a public audience.
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RE: Should one approach dogmatists in the pulic space?
April 5, 2015 at 7:52 pm
(April 5, 2015 at 7:28 pm)robvalue Wrote: One good tactic I've heard of is to preach yourself. Stand within earshot of them, and talk about the FSM using similar language to them. You could bring along a cuddly FSM to hold out like they hold their bible, and keep calling it the pasta of God. That way you're making them look ridiculous without ever insulting them.
That's a logical argument at its core. Anyone listening to it will recognize what you are trying to do and consider you an asshole who is insulting their intelligence.
You need to directly attack their emotional attachment. What happens to people born and raised in Japan? Are they really evil and deserving of eternal hellfire? What about those raised in western civilizations by atheist parents? It's not their fault. What about your atheist friends and/or relatives? Are you really going to enjoy Heaven (even before the boredom takes its toll) knowing the bastard who's ass you are kissing is torturing them?
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
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RE: Should one approach dogmatists in the pulic space?
April 5, 2015 at 9:26 pm
What will be best is going to depend on too many particulars to be easy to specify in a post of reasonable length.
Use your own judgement, and speak up when you think best, and not otherwise. Of course, that will be best only if you have good judgement, but if you don't, you won't do it right anyway.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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