Ex theists: what did you believe?

[henryp]

I will say, I think a big part of the Atheist movement is 1) Our generation has 40 years of life where death isn't a real threat.  We're not being shipped to war, or getting the plague, or expecting to die at 45.  Not having death looming over our heads gives us some time to think things through without it being a huge influence.  2) Atheism is popular.  It's the idea people associate with being smart.  Kind of like sharing I LOVE FUCKING SCIENCE bullshit on facebook.  People REALLY want to be smart.  It's an amazing sociological control.  If you can frame any position as the 'Smart' position, people will stampede eachother to get onto that bandwagon.  3) I think we see a lot of right conclusions in general atheism with the same shitty quality logic that people use to believe in God.  I think many people just like the conclusion of No God, and half-ass the implications.   There's a lot of the same really wonky grade school logic thrown around here with atheists justifying their belief system that we're so quick to criticize Theists for.

I'll accept some of that criticism.  Some of us here are sometimes prone to over state our case, seemingly more interested in being convincing that being correct.

Not sure what implications concern you.  Mortality doesn't seem like such a bad deal.  Hell it is a great deal.

In the end, we all want to believe we are smarter than others for having figured out this puzzle, but in reality, if it was 1950, we'd be most likely heading to church tomorrow, and saying prayer before each meal.  And if it were ancient egypt, we'd all be worshipping Ra.  The point being, we are not smarter than everyone in the history of mankind, we just got lucky in our circumstances.  At least that's how I see it, which is why I cringe a little at the maliciousness and vitriol focused on religious people.

I don't think it is really a matter of wanting to think we're smarter.  We all prefer our own opinion because, really, what else do we have?  If we're content to defer to an expert, we'd still need the competence to select the right expert.  May as well cut out the middle man and commit to cultivating our own wits and judgement.

Re implications: There are a lot, in my opinion.  Mostly involving meaning, morality, purpose, free will, behavior, dealing with others, etc..  I think we've been conditioned to behave a certain way via evolution/sociological stuff, and it's let us outgrow the need for religion as long as we just stick to what we "feel" rather than dig into what makes sense.  But a lot of the Atheist attitude is that we are about logic rather than 'feels.'  So to me, there's a bunch of it that just seems about the same as religion, but not even bothering with God.

Re mortality being good: Screw that!

Re smarts: It's one of the more interesting, to me, that I've been pondering lately.  What's the evolutionary purpose of people's certainty in their own critical thinking.  Even objectively dumb people, who may even know they are dumb, are very confident in what we think of as common sense.  I talk about sports on another forum, and the NHL Draft is coming up.  A professional scouting service ranks the kids who will be drafted, and have one kid ranked 5th.  A slew of fans, who have at best seen him play once or twice, are convinced he should be more like 12th.  I ask why they think they know more than a professional scouting service, and they say "Pros aren't always right."  Which is true, but irrelevant to why they view their own terribly informed amateur opinion over that of an expert.  And this is something you see everywhere.  Science/politics/religion/economics/etc.. It's not that they have different opinions, or individual thoughts, it's the crazy level of confidence they have in those opinions or thoughts despite the lack of reason to place any confidence in them.

So if anyone has any reasons why this would have developed, and what purpose it serves, I'd be super interested to here.  Maybe it's a side effect of some other thing that does have a purpose?  

Every time I respond in one of these threads, I feel like I could start 5 more threads on different topics.

[Polaris]

Weren't most ex-theists just cultural theists who only called themselves theists because their family forced them to attend religious services?

You have got to be kidding.

Nope. Even many people who say their Christian don't actually worship God and still more don't even believe in God (half the Catholics in France are atheist).

[Hatshepsut]

What's the evolutionary purpose of people's certainty in their own critical thinking?  Even objectively dumb people, who may even know they are dumb, are very confident in what we think of as common sense.

Back on The Flintstones  in Bedrock, perhaps indecision was fatal once Bamm-Bamm started swinging his club. Of course it couldn't have been just a matter of reflexes and rapid response. Self-Confidence in Social Settings was likely a thing rewarded by Father Darwin by way of winning love. Meanwhile the artificial, highly abstract thinking situations we civilized folks have worked ourselves into weren't too common in the early days. Even our social world has gotten infected with a lot of complicated politics and shifting circles of friends that didn't exist when you lived your whole life with the same 25 people. There's different kinds of "smart" and "dumb" and being mathematically gifted or verbally eloquent, which is what usually goes for "smart" today, wasn't necessarily advantageous.

Besides that an opinionated sports fan who devalues the pro scouts may well be smart enough to listen to a doctor when sick.

That's my evolutionary "just so story," one of those awful storybook creations Stephen Jay Gould often condemned.  

[Darkstar]

Did you really believe there was a god, and if so, what did you feel you knew about him?

Yes, I really believed there was a god. I believed (because I had been told) that he was a paragon of wisdom and morality.

Did you really think your holy book was divinely inspired?

Definitely. I treated it as though it were a history book. (Un)fortunately, I never actually read much of it other than the parts everyone talks about. Even back then, though, something seemed... strange about the story of Noah's ark. I don't know when that feeling first appeared, because I'm pretty sure I believed in it unquestioningly at some point.

Did you have experiences which you really thought were divine interactions?

Sort of. After a confession, I felt as though a weight had been lifted off of my soul. Several years later, I played FFIV, and when Cecil became a paladin, I had the same feeling, only stronger.

What else did you believe then that you don't now?

I believed that miracles were real, and that prayer actually worked. I didn't even understand the concept of being an atheist. But once I did...

[Whateverist]

Weren't most ex-theists just cultural theists who only called themselves theists because their family forced them to attend religious services?

That is certainly true for me.  My great grandfather on my dad's side was a methodist minister, converted from catholicism after coming over from France.  My father's father was a ne'er do well who fathered 7 kids and then ran off with another woman.  When my father's mother died he became a ward of the court.  He was pretty stunted socially.  For that reason, in spite of his enthusiasm for god and heaven, he didn't create a relationship with me which would make me want to join his religion

Nonetheless, I did attend church for some amount of time.  But we stopped going when he shipped over seas with the navy before I started school.  I'd say up until 2nd or 3rd grade I was an indignant xtian who couldn't understand how anyone could be so ungrateful as not to love god.  So I never read the bible in the time that I believed.  As a result, my beliefs weren't based on anything more than my very young imagination applied to a few stories.  Definitely no true xtian by any means.

I remember the feeling of expecting time to go on forever even after death.  It definitely gives one a different (and false) perspective on mortality.  But it is attractive in its way.  Imagining that each decision I made was something that might make god proud helped turn me into the narcissist I became.  Ah well, no ones perfect.

[superAtheistnut]

I was brought up as a Roman Catholic - loved it. Have nothing to complain about really. I actually miss it.

In my teens and young adults, I simply stopped attending church cause I had more fun things to do.

As an adult, I now dwell on new thoughts that all religions were man-made and the gods our ancestors saw were in fact MORTAL multi-dimensional superior beings . Demi-gods at best, possibly our universe was created by highly advanced civilizations. Yes they are our creators but not our gods. Because then you have to ask who created them and where are their gods?

Am I an Atheist now? Not sure, am I agnostic , yup. Am I a theist, I want to be I miss it.

Atheism I find is very depressing, which is why I've slowly gone back to the Catholic church. Not because I"m a believer, but for the comradery of a social-group that atheism cannot offer me. Had I been brought up a Muslim/Jew/etc I'd lean that way too.

I wonder if anyone else feels atheism has failed them spiritually? To me it has, science is very materialistic as atheism, but it does not offer any insight into the human psychy of why we urge for friendship and a feeling of belonging with a higher divine (even if it doesnt exist).

[robvalue]

That's an interesting point actually. I wonder what proportion of ex-theists "really believed" when they were under? Clearly many did. What percentage would that be?

But then I suppose, if they never really believed, they were atheist even when nominally a theist.

[superAtheistnut]

That's an interesting point actually. I wonder what proportion of ex-theists "really believed" when they were under? Clearly many did. What percentage would that be?

But then I suppose, if they never really believed, they were atheist even when nominally a theist.

Exactly. I feel the only reason I cling onto Christianity is not so much for the 'god' aspect but for the belonging to a social group.

It's difficult to abondon your family and friends just because of some ideology difference I have. If the difference is for me to keep my mouth shut and I can be amongst my friends and families for Christmas and Easter and all the festivals. Then so be it. I personally enjoy all the myths and legends that religion brings. It doesn't mean that I have to believe it, but I can acknowledge its brought great wonders and comfort to humanity and will continue to do so for eons to come.

I guess I've become a passive Atheist. To me, it gets tiresome to whine and complain to theists and try to convince them that their god is a hoax. As I get older, I just don't care anymore and prefer to be amongst family and friends (even if they invite me to their religious festivals, I'll play along cause I don't want to be a party-pooper anymore).

One of my atheist friends said "you will be shunned and oucasted from the atheist community if you speak this way" and my response was "just like I was shunned by the religious community"? 

[ObliviousCat]

I'm interested in hearing from those of you who have come out of religion. What would you list as your sincere beliefs while you were a theist? For example:

Did you really believe there was a god, and if so, what did you feel you knew about him?

Did you really think your holy book was divinely inspired?

Did you have experiences which you really thought were divine interactions?

What else did you believe then that you don't now?

I hope it goes without saying I'm not intending to make fun of anyone, I'm genuinely interested. Having never been the slightest bit religious, I can't even imagine what it must feel like to have any of these kinds of beliefs. How did they make you feel?

Thank you

Yes, I believed there was a god and the reason being was because of my mother. We did not attend church and she did not read me the Bible, but I partially (and I say partially because I'm 15) grew up with a Christian point of view instilled in my mind. She used to always ramble on about God, including other family members. Too young to really think about it, I went along with it.

Technically, I did not think the Bible was divinely inspired because I never read it until recently, which is exactly what caused me to become an Atheist. I conducted research on religion, specifically Christianity amongst others, and read the entire Bible and looked for plausible evidence and came to the conclusion that I lack a belief in a deity.

I used to believe in Heaven and Hell. Now, all I believe is that this is my life and there is no afterlife and therefore I must make the best of it. If anything, I'd say becoming an Atheist has inspired me to continue on.

[Minimalist]

Catholic which was just a lot of silly ritual and memorization of their bullshit.  "Jesus" was the guy hanging on the cross which looked like it really sucked.  Anyway, I dumped it by the time I was 11.

No worse for wear from the shit they shoved in my ears.  Very lucky the pervert bastards didn't shove anything up my ass.