Transgendered children

[I_am_not_mafia]

I'd rather they be given more time to figure out who they are before you change their body to something they may not be happy with in the future.

And that's what they are doing by delaying puberty.

[SteelCurtain]

I don't think little kids know much about what they are at a young age. I wouldn't want that kind of thing done to a small child. I'm no psychiatrist or anything, or how you'd even go abut figuring out if a kid really sees themself as another gender, or if they're just going through a faze. I'd rather they be given more time to figure out who they are before you change their body to something they may not be happy with in the future.

What boy goes through a phase of thinking and feeling that they're a girl from the time they're 3 years old and never ceasing? I remember when I was very young. I had no doubt as to what gender I was. In fact, as early as kindergarten, I remember the pressure for a boy to be a boy. You didn't cry, you didn't do girl things, you didn't wear girl things, you got cooties if you touched a girl. I think I'm pretty safe in assuming that's a pretty universal experience for boys until hormones start happening. What kid would choose to go against that grain? I can imagine a kid going through a phase wanting to play with baby dolls or something like that. I don't think living memory for a person qualifies as a phase.

There is plenty of literature on GID and there is a common theme amongst the authors. Kids generally start demonstrating issues as toddlers or young adolescents. Just because this kid's parents are lesbians doesn't mean anything. Never mind that they have three older boys that have turned out fine. They even have grandchildren by some of their older kids.

[Iroscato]

Oy, I'm on the fence about this a bit. But when I consider what I was doing at around 8...the thought of being that torn up about my gender identity never entered my head. For a kid to be this serious and sure about it means there's a definite basis for treatment IMO. I understand the pain that people with GID have to go through, the torture of being born in the wrong body. I can see the argument for catching it early so she didn't have to go through that, certainly.

[Pyrrho]

To the OP:

I find the whole thing very strange.  I don't want to sound Cartesian, but I think of myself as a thinking thing, and I think of my gender as whatever my body is.  So I cannot relate at all to feeling like one is the "wrong" gender.  And likewise, I cannot relate to feeling like one is the "right" gender.  I feel like a thinking thing, not like a particular gender.  Not, that is, from introspection.  When I look in the mirror, there is no doubt of what I am, but that does not at all explain why someone would feel like they should have a different body.

It reminds me of people who feel like they should be paraplegics or other things of a like nature.  All of that is quite alien to me; I just feel like a thinking thing, and what my body is, is whatever it is.  I don't feel like my body should be anything in particular.

So when I read Descartes, I know what he means, even though I don't agree with him on much.

Also, from speaking with others about this, I know I am not alone in how I feel about this from introspection.

[Minimalist]

To inflict this on an 8 year old?  "Nutty" works for me.  I could find other words that were even less polite if you'd like.

You're assuming that they inflicted it upon the 8 year old. If you had lesbian parents then would you have grown up knowing in the very fibre of your being that you were a girl?

There is a reason why children are legally considered "minors" until they reach legal age in this country.  Children always know what they "want."

[Chad32]

I'd rather they be given more time to figure out who they are before you change their body to something they may not be happy with in the future.

And that's what they are doing by delaying puberty.

Which is kind of disturbing to me. That can't really be healthy.

I just think maybe instead of changing someone's body, we should change our ideas of what a man or woman should be like. There is no real standard of what a man or woman needs to be, aside from what society instills in them. If we were just open about what a person could do, is there really anything a child couldn't do unless they had different body parts?

[Minimalist]

Much progress has been made in the US towards allowing gays to adopt.  It is far from universal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/09...37076.html

Florida lawmakers approved a measure on Thursday that would allow private adoption agencies refuse to let gay couples adopt children.

What do you suppose the right-wing nut jobs are going to do with this story?  It is all of their fears about allowing gays to adopt rolled up into one.

[SteelCurtain]

You're assuming that they inflicted it upon the 8 year old. If you had lesbian parents then would you have grown up knowing in the very fibre of your being that you were a girl?

There is a reason why children are legally considered "minors" until they reach legal age in this country.  Children always know what they "want."

There is a massive difference between caving to a child's whims and treating a recognized psychological disorder.

They are not cutting off this child's penis. They are delaying puberty by 2-3 years so she can make a more informed decision and engage in the counseling that is necessary to begin a gender transition.

Do you deny that adults have gender identity disorder? What mechanism would prevent adolescents from experiencing the same issues? Would you be having the same reaction if she were being treated for depression, another recognized psychiatric disorder?

If she truly is a gender dysphoric child---as all signs point to and as her doctor diagnosed her--- she has a vastly greater chance at a really effective transition if they start the process before she goes through puberty, starts to develop the musculature, deeper voice, and body hair that a male has. She will have a chance at a normal life being her true self.

[SteelCurtain]

Which is kind of disturbing to me. That can't really be healthy.

By what measure is it not healthy? Because you wouldn't do it? Do you think forcing her to be a boy, which she's not in her brain, and go through puberty and lessen her chances to have a successful transition is healthy?

This idea that these parents just are elated to have the child they adopted be a girl because they are lesbians is infuriating. Every account of this story paints this out to have been an excruciatingly difficult process and decision where the hardest thing they had to do was to actually listen to their child, and advocate for her.

I just think maybe instead of changing someone's body, we should change our ideas of what a man or woman should be like. There is no real standard of what a man or woman needs to be, aside from what society instills in them. If we were just open about what a person could do, is there really anything a child couldn't do unless they had different body parts?

This isn't a case where she just wants to do 'girly' things. She literally understands herself as a girl. Her concept of being is that she is female. She feels wrong as a boy. It is a feeling that literally cannot be empathized with, I imagine. I cannot even fathom what it's like. But it has been studied and it is a real thing. Again, they aren't cutting off her penis. That's not happening. If she decides not to transition, they'll take the patch off and she'll go through puberty with no ill effects on her reproductive ability.

This, by all accounts, isn't a whimsy.

[vorlon13]

I first encountered a transexual (that was the term then) around 1976. My God she was a fun person to be around!! Imagine Madam at age 25 with WAY too much money.

She had a medical condition in which her body did not respond to male hormones in addition to what we would now realize is the actual psychological gender dysphoria. (I think at the time most of us assumed, her included, that the hormone problem 'caused' the gender shift, when actually, it was just a happy coincidence her body had the hormone thing when she was already female to herself, despite an 'intact' male anatomy)

She still required some surgery, although the female hormones worked very well for her as her 'on board' male hormones had no effect. Her voice never changed, and she didn't need electrolysis. Even pre-surgery she easily passed for female and had zero problems from anyone then. I even took her to a party at work and several of my co-workers danced with her. (it was a Halloween party, obviously, she had the best costume, but since we didn't tell, she didn't win)

Sadly, we've both moved several times, and as the case with so many people I lost track of pre-internet, I've never found what became of her.

As for the case cited in the OP, I hope that individual turns out as happy and well adjusted as my friend from so long ago.