Problems With The Bible Pt 5 - Sodom and Gomorrah

[robvalue]

Following the morality of the bible is impossible because it is contradictory. It involves choosing which side of contradictions you want to follow.

[Nope]

Well cheers for clearing that one up, old boy. That makes genocide SO much more reasonable a response. You absolute thundering backside.

The fuck?

Destroying an entire city is genocide. 

[Vox Populi]

Awesome video again man... One thing I think is funny is how there is an ad on your video that pops up from YouTube to request your free bible to learn 

It made me laugh!

[Mudhammam]

The fuck?

Destroying an entire city is genocide. 

Maybe S&G were Armenians? Then it would just have been a "mass atrocity" and "terrible carnage."

[John V]

Taking a look at some of the problems with Sodom and Gomorrah, Why did God need to send angels to scout the city for him?

He didn't. This is a common error of atheists. That someone does something doesn't necessarily imply that they need to do it.

Why would God negotiate with Abraham about the people in the city?

To teach Abraham how wicked people are in God's view. Abraham probably thought the people of Sodom were OK. His nephew lived there, and had attained a position of some prominence there (he was sitting at the gate of the city, which from what I've read indicates some social status). Abraham had better knowledge of God and man after this incident.

Why didn't God keep lot from getting raped?  And much more.

Meh, it's easy to ask questions. Atheists like you remind me of my children - when they were 6. Thinking about the questions and looking for answers takes some effort.

---

(Biblical scholars don't believe homosexuality was the actual sin, but more along the lines of a lack of hospitality)

While some Biblical scholars believe that, I think it's a stretch to just make the blanket statement.

[Nope]

Taking a look at some of the problems with Sodom and Gomorrah, Why did God need to send angels to scout the city for him?

He didn't. This is a common error of atheists. That someone does something doesn't necessarily imply that they need to do it.

 I have no idea why we atheists keep asking why the Christian god doesn't act like the omnipotent, omniscient deity that his followers claim he is. We should just be like  some Christians and accept that he acts contradictory to everything that they claim their god is.

Yes, an all powerful, all knowing god that sees everything and everyone sends angels, that he knows will be threatened with gang rape, to Lot's house even though this same god could simply appear to Lot like he does other biblical people.  That doesn't seem ludicrous to you?

Meh, it's easy to ask questions. Atheists like you remind me of my children - when they were 6. Thinking about the questions and looking for answers takes some effort.

 Then answer the question. According to the bible, Christians are supposed to answer questions in a respectful manner. They can't just tell nonbelievers to find their own answers. 


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[url=http://biblehub.com/1_peter/3-14.htm]◄ 1 Peter 3:15 ►

Parallel Verses

New International Version
But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

I must have alpha male confused with someone else because I thought he was an atheist.

[LostLocke]

So it's homosexuality which is a crime of "meh, so what", versus lack of hospitality which is a crime of "meh, so what".
God forbid God didn't pick an 'actual' crime like murder or rape.... oh wait.

[John V]

I have no idea why we atheists keep asking why the Christian god doesn't act like the omnipotent, omniscient deity that his followers claim he is. We should just be like  some Christians and accept that he acts contradictory to everything that they claim their god is.

I have no idea why atheists think they know how an omnipotent, omniscient deity must necessarily act.

If from a human perspective an omniscient, omnipotent god must act in a certain way, and if the Bible was written by man alone, then the God of the Bible would act in that certain way. So, your argument gives credibility to Christianity.

Yes, an all powerful, all knowing god that sees everything and everyone sends angels, that he knows will be threatened with gang rape, to Lot's house even though this same god could simply appear to Lot like he does other biblical people.  That doesn't seem ludicrous to you?

No, it doesn't. You're entitled to hold that position, but if you think others should as well, you're just making an argument from personal incredulity.

 Then answer the question. According to the bible, Christians are supposed to answer questions in a respectful manner. They can't just tell nonbelievers to find their own answers. 

He wasn't asking me about the hope that is in me. Such a question would come from someone sincerely searching, not a confirmed atheist. In that situation, the Bible tells us not to cast pearls before swine. But I was nice and gave you two answers.

[KevinM1]

The problem is that god is initially described in terms of omniscience and omnipotence, and is still described by Christians of all flavors as being perfect.  Yet, perfection does not want.  It does not need.  The very act of creation is one of taking action to fulfill some desire or need - to fill some missing part of itself.  And as the OT goes on, we see a god that isn't just imperfect, but one that's incredibly inefficient in what he does.  Putting aside the immorality of god's actions, the story of Lot highlights this.

He argues with a human.
He sends two subordinates in his place to discover what he should have already known.
Those subordinates don't even perform the task required of them, and judge the city based on the desires of the mob alone.

That's just idiotic.

I'm a programmer.  A lot of my job is about being efficient and anticipating errors so that they either don't happen at all, or if they do, happen in a graceful way that doesn't nuke the rest of the program.  God, this supposed super being, fails spectacularly on those fronts.

And, I know, I know... apologists like you will pull out the argument from ignorance card ("Well, how can you tell when your perception is so very limited compared to god's?"), but that's just it.  If I, a lowly human can detect such wanton waste of effort and lives, then there's a problem.  To go back to programming, good code is incredibly readable.  It reads a lot like a good novel.  It's clear, concise, and it flows logically.  It's an emergent trait of doing it right.  It would make sense that if god were any of the things apologists claimed he was, his actions, motivations, and what he requires of us would also be clear, even in the realm of symbolism and metaphor.

Instead, we get a bunch of self-contradictory nonsense.  And when people like me complain about that, we're told we're simply not 'reading it right', or that we don't understand in a broader sense.  Even though there are ~40,000 different ways of 'reading it right', and no two true believers agree on even the fundamentals (as we've seen here with Christians of various flavors trying to describe the triune god, hell, how god judges, etc.).  That kind of unclarity necessarily stems from faulty source material.  Just as good code is innately readable, nonsense is not.

And a logical god (not a perfect, or all-whatever, just logical) wouldn't be presented in such an ambiguous manner.  It wouldn't need to be apologized for.  It wouldn't need hordes of people clamoring to tell unbelievers the One True Way... which is different with each person who describes it.  It would be clear to all, and above all else, naturally compelling.

[John V]

@ Kevin:

The Bible acknowledges that its wisdom is not laid out like code:

Proverbs 25
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter,
But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

And it acknowledges that its message appears foolish to human wisdom:

1 Cor 1
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”[a]
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks[b] foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.