Biblical Prayer Contradictions

[Wyrd of Gawd]

So, let's get this straight G-C.  You have never, in your whole life, looked up at the sky on a dark night?



Because if you had you wouldn't say stuff that makes you even dumber.

I lost count just above the tall tree.  Now I have to start all over!

[Godscreated]

It seems as if you (Godschild) don’t know what a contradiction is, so here you go:

con·tra·dic·tion
ˌkäntrəˈdikSH(ə)n/
noun

1. a combination of statements, ideas, or features of a situation that are opposed to one another.


Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

These are called contradictions. Or rather, these 3 statements don’t agree with each other on this particular situation.

There are many of these. Neimenovic gave you a list of them, but you don’t care to even give them a thought. You simply dismiss them as not being contradictions, when in fact, they are.

What contradiction, three statements Christ made on the cross recorded by three writers as they remember such a brutal crime. Watch you friend killed in such a fashion and see what you and others around you remember, they'll be three similar stories with different details about the same thing, the thing happened and was remember by you three with remembrances of different details not all the same. Crimes investigated over many years have proven this to be true.
I did not dismiss the supposed contradictions with thought thought, I've seen them and dealt with some of them for several years, I'm not new to your little game.

GC

[robvalue]

Jesus came to abolish all the contradictions!

He failed, and just added more. Whoops. He should have sent down an editor instead.

[Longhorn]

Luke did not record the time in Egypt, that in no way means it didn't happen. Many stories have been written about Pearl Harbor and my uncles ship was not mentioned, even though it became one of the most sought after ship by the Japanese to destroy. Just because his sip wasn't mentioned in most stories doesn't mean it wasn't there. mark and John do not record the childhood of Christ at all, so I guess you believe He must have not grown up or we have a new contradiction.

But the contradiction stands

The woman was a Greek just as Mark said, Matthew only gave the location from where she came. There was a ------- that live in the U.S. and he came out of the U.S. into Canada, what nationality was he.

That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think? I wouldn't call an American in Canada a Canadian

Jesus taught His disciples to pray in public, yes in front of other people, Jesus himself did so. Jesus taught people in public to pray for other even their enemies and He didn't tell them not to pray before others. In Matthew 6:5-15, Jesus was teaching them not to pray with vanity, even when they pray in private. Jesus wanted those who were serious about their relationship with God to pray not just in public but also in private where it is quite and one can concentrate on what they are doing. In this same set of verses Jesus taught the Lord's prayer which is a public prayer. Jesus never said we could not pray in public. The only thing Jesus condemns in the verses you quoted was those who pray with vanity.

GC

That's great, really. But we're talking about Jesus and Paul.

Let's get even more technical then:

16) Matthew 5:1-2 Christ preached his first sermon on the mount. Luke 6:17 & 20 Christ preached his first sermon in the plain.

17) John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. Mark 1:14 John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. John 1:43 & 3:22-24

28) How many women came to the sepulcher? John 20:1 Only one woman went, Mary Magdalene. Matthew 28:1 Mary Magdalene and the "other Mary" (Jesus’ mother) went.

24) When was Christ crucified? Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour and they crucified him." John 19:14-15 "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your king…Shall I crucify your king?" John 19:14-15.

Are you really going to insist there is no contradiction? What sort of mental gymnastics will you employ to dismiss those incompatibilities?

[Salacious B. Crumb]

It seems as if you (Godschild) don’t know what a contradiction is, so here you go:

con·tra·dic·tion
ˌkäntrəˈdikSH(ə)n/
noun

1. a combination of statements, ideas, or features of a situation that are opposed to one another.


Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

These are called contradictions. Or rather, these 3 statements don’t agree with each other on this particular situation.

There are many of these. Neimenovic gave you a list of them, but you don’t care to even give them a thought. You simply dismiss them as not being contradictions, when in fact, they are.

What contradiction, three statements Christ made on the cross recorded by three writers as they remember such a brutal crime. Watch you friend killed in such a fashion and see what you and others around you remember, they'll be three similar stories with different details about the same thing, the thing happened and was remember by you three with remembrances of different details not all the same. Crimes investigated over many years have proven this to be true.
I did not dismiss the supposed contradictions with thought thought, I've seen them and dealt with some of them for several years, I'm not new to your little game.

GC

My little game? Are you that fucking stupid? Nice attempt at trying to ignore the contradictions. "You watch your friend get killed..bla blah blah." Those are 3 very different things being said. If I did watch a friend die like that, I would remember his last words.

A normal human being wouldn't expect that kind of a contradiction of the "son of god's" last words, in god's perfect holy book. Keep lying, it makes you look that much more moronic to everyone else.

[robvalue]

We have had a very thorough discussion about what Jesus' last words were in this thread

[Pyrrho]

It seems as if you (Godschild) don’t know what a contradiction is, so here you go:

con·tra·dic·tion
ˌkäntrəˈdikSH(ə)n/
noun

1. a combination of statements, ideas, or features of a situation that are opposed to one another.


Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

These are called contradictions. Or rather, these 3 statements don’t agree with each other on this particular situation.

There are many of these. Neimenovic gave you a list of them, but you don’t care to even give them a thought. You simply dismiss them as not being contradictions, when in fact, they are.

What contradiction, three statements Christ made on the cross recorded by three writers as they remember such a brutal crime. Watch you friend killed in such a fashion and see what you and others around you remember, they'll be three similar stories with different details about the same thing, the thing happened and was remember by you three with remembrances of different details not all the same. Crimes investigated over many years have proven this to be true.
I did not dismiss the supposed contradictions with thought thought, I've seen them and dealt with some of them for several years, I'm not new to your little game.

GC

The thing is, that proves that there are errors in it and it therefore cannot be completely trusted.  It is just another book written by men, and they got things wrong.  We then have no reason to believe that anything in it is right, unless it is independently verified.  Which pretty well destroys the Christian religion, for every thinking person.

There are other ancient books, also written by men, and you have no reason to pick this book (or, more properly, set of books) as being anything special.  You have just told us that it is not made by God and infallible, but is just another book that contains falsehoods.  If God had actually guided the authors, they would not get things wrong, unless God himself is a liar and wanted it that way.


There are also contradictions that are clearly not trivial, nor do they depend on the particular translation, as the stories themselves are incompatible.  For example:

In Luke 1:26-35, we have:

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


But in Luke 2:41-50:

41 Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.

42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.

43 And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.

44 But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.

45 And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him.

46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.


Now, how is it that they did not understand what Jesus was saying there? There is no way you are is going to forget an angel visiting you and telling you that your virgin fiancée has been impregnated by God, so you should go ahead and marry her anyway. So if this later story is true, the earlier one about the virgin birth is false. The story is not consistent with itself.


So we have reason to doubt everything, as it is just a mess rather than a coherent story.  And that is even keeping with the same book of the Bible, and not bothering with inconsistencies from one book to the next.  It is a huge pile of crap, that no thinking person can take seriously.

It greatly resembles other writings of primitive, ignorant, superstitious people, and is of no value as a guide to life, or as a guide to anything even important historically.  The virgin birth, miracle cures, it is all the same sort of BS nonsense one finds in other ancient texts, written by other primitive, ignorant, superstitious people than the primitive, ignorant, superstitious people who wrote the Bible.

Even you know that it contains falsehood, and yet you pretend that it is somehow a guide to life.  But it cannot be a reliable guide when it gets things wrong.

[Godscreated]

Luke did not record the time in Egypt, that in no way means it didn't happen. Many stories have been written about Pearl Harbor and my uncles ship was not mentioned, even though it became one of the most sought after ship by the Japanese to destroy. Just because his sip wasn't mentioned in most stories doesn't mean it wasn't there. mark and John do not record the childhood of Christ at all, so I guess you believe He must have not grown up or we have a new contradiction.

But the contradiction stands

There's no contradiction, I gave a reasonable explanation showing there's no contradiction and you counter with nothing other than, "the contradiction stands. I asked you earlier when I showed you were wrong about a contradiction to support your claim, the burden is your's, it's your claim. I see now that all you have is "nothing."

The woman was a Greek just as Mark said, Matthew only gave the location from where she came. There was a ------- that live in the U.S. and he came out of the U.S. into Canada, what nationality was he.

That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think? I wouldn't call an American in Canada a Canadian

That's my point entirely, the woman in Canaan was a Greek simply because she was a Greek in Canaan. No different from the Irishman that left the U.S. and went to Canada. He's neither Canadian nor American.

Jesus taught His disciples to pray in public, yes in front of other people, Jesus himself did so. Jesus taught people in public to pray for other even their enemies and He didn't tell them not to pray before others. In Matthew 6:5-15, Jesus was teaching them not to pray with vanity, even when they pray in private. Jesus wanted those who were serious about their relationship with God to pray not just in public but also in private where it is quite and one can concentrate on what they are doing. In this same set of verses Jesus taught the Lord's prayer which is a public prayer. Jesus never said we could not pray in public. The only thing Jesus condemns in the verses you quoted was those who pray with vanity.

GC

That's great, really. But we're talking about Jesus and Paul.

Let's get even more technical then:

Paul always said He was not speaking for or from himself, He said he was speaking from Christ. Besides what's this thing you're saying mean, "we're talking about Jesus and Paul, Paul's authority comes from Christ. You're not making much sense. 

16) Matthew 5:1-2 Christ preached his first sermon on the mount.  Luke 6:17 & 20 Christ preached his first sermon in the plain.

Christ did preach His sermon on the mount before he preached on the plain. You should study the scriptures before you make claims of contradiction. In chapter 4 of Matthew Jesus is gathering disciples and then goes to the mount to teach them, He had just brought these into the group of disciples.

In Luke chapter 6 Jesus picks His twelve apostles and then teaches them on the plain, so in Matthew's account the 12 apostles hadn't been chosen making the mount service first by reason of the standing of apostles and disciples. The twelve you see were the only apostles, all the rest of Jesus followers were disciples. Bet you didn't even pay attention that Jesus wasn't teaching to the multitude on the mount nor the plain, did you. 

17) John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee.  Mark 1:14  John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee.  John 1:43 & 3:22-24

Matthew chapter 4 and Mark chapter 1 are in agreement with each other when John was in prison even down to the point of gathering disciples to pick His twelve from. John 1:43-44 was after Matthew chapter 4, this is shown by the disciples of Phillip and Nathanael  being chosen after Peter and Andrew. We know they were chosen later because of the previous verses 41 and 42 tell us this. Now with this said to show I'm not blind to what the Bible says, there is something you should know, the Book of John was not a chronological representation of Christ's entire life. So there is no contradiction only a book written for the spiritual aspect for Christ.

28) How many women came to the sepulcher?  John 20:1  Only one woman went, Mary Magdalene.  Matthew 28:1  Mary Magdalene and the "other Mary" (Jesus’ mother) went.

None of the accounts give the same number of women going to the tomb, why should they and why would that be important, the writers recorded this as they saw things to be important. This is a ploy atheist use to draw attention away from what was really important, the resurrection of Christ and that was what the writers were writing about, not women. You need to pay attention to the subject at hand and in this case it was the resurrection. I'm sure many women went to the tomb, some just didn't see the necessity of mentioning them all. None of the accounts say that "only one went."

24) When was Christ crucified?  Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour and they crucified him."  John 19:14-15  "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your king…Shall I crucify your king?"  

 
John 19:14-15 records what Pilate said at 6 o'clock in the morning and his words, "Shall I crucify your King," was spoken before Christ was even sentenced to the cross. Mark 15:1-21 tells us what was happening in the morning hours and they tell us the same as John 19:14-15. All the gospels record the event the same way.

Are you really going to insist there is no contradiction? What sort of mental gymnastics will you employ to dismiss those incompatibilities?

 
The only mental gymnastics or should I say mentally ignoring the truth is being done by you, I read and study the Bible not just go to some wed site and choose what others have to say. When you bring what others say and claim it the truth and I discredit it they are not the only ones looking foolish. Besides it's you who need to prove your claims, which you haven't done once, I'll be waiting to see if you can. So far you've brought no evidence of contradiction. Please from now on bring one at a time, if you insist on more than one I will pick one and address it and ignore the others, I made this request earlier.

GC

[Godscreated]

What contradiction, three statements Christ made on the cross recorded by three writers as they remember such a brutal crime. Watch you friend killed in such a fashion and see what you and others around you remember, they'll be three similar stories with different details about the same thing, the thing happened and was remember by you three with remembrances of different details not all the same. Crimes investigated over many years have proven this to be true.
I did not dismiss the supposed contradictions with thought thought, I've seen them and dealt with some of them for several years, I'm not new to your little game.

GC

My little game? Are you that fucking stupid? Nice attempt at trying to ignore the contradictions. "You watch your friend get killed..bla blah blah." Those are 3 very different things being said. If I did watch a friend die like that, I would remember his last words.

 Yes your little stupid game, actually not your's I've seen this for many years and have not be impressed and still am not. I gave you answers how is that ignoring anything. Well if you want to deny the truth of many law enforcement officers go ahead it's your ignorance you're feeding.

A normal human being wouldn't expect that kind of a contradiction of the "son of god's" last words, in god's perfect holy book. Keep lying, it makes you look that much more moronic to everyone else.

 
There are no contradictions, one of the sayings wasn't even the last thing said by Christ on the cross as you claim, the other two though worded differently say the same thing. I'm not lying and have no need to, on the other hand you have no ability to defend your claim so you revert to name calling. How old are you any way 13, 14 years old.

GC

[Salacious B. Crumb]

Well if you want to deny the truth of many law enforcement officers go ahead it's your ignorance you're feeding.

Whhaatt!!?

There are no contradictions

Ya…sure.

one of the sayings wasn't even the last thing said by Christ on the cross as you claim

What, when he cried out on the cross? Or, what is it then? How about the second last thing he said in John? “I am thirsty”. He’s suffered on the cross for hours, knows when he’s going to die, and asks for a drink, then right after, he dies. Is that put in there for some sort of comedy aspect, or what?

the other two though worded differently say the same thing.

The way that you have to struggle to interpret (twist the meanings to match what you’re arguing for in a particular situation) many verses of the bible, it doesn’t surprise me that you would say that.