Scientific Adam and Eve

[robvalue]

When they say "woman" I assume this isn't going to be a human as we know them today, but one of our ancestors, right?

And if you do the same on the male side, you're going to reach one of our ancestors eventually... but it's not going to be one who actually necessarily bred with the woman above.

So this isn't a "couple" who generated all of us as in the bible.

Is it? This is rather over my head at the moment I need to learn more about this.

[Alex K]

I sense a lot of confusion in the force.

Mitochondrial Eve and Y Adam were the respective *latest* common ancestors of all humans living now in the purely maternal/paternal line. They didn't live at the same time and of course were part of a bigger population.

Since all living humans are genetically compatible modern humans, this means that that these two, Adam and Eve, were more or less early modern humans, right? - I guess it is statistically unlikely that they came from some side branch. Wait... Since it is only the mitochondria or Y chromosome in a strictly maternal or paternal lineage, it could come from a much earlier ancestor, unlike the general latest common ancestor. Which precise individual mito Eve and Y Adam are also isn't a constant but possibly changes over time as people die. To illustrate, if a meteorite killed everyone but you and your sister, your mom would be the new mitochondrial eve.

Isn't that correct, biologists of this forum?

[Alex K]

When they say "woman" I assume this isn't going to be a human as we know them today, but one of our ancestors, right?

Hey you are talking about our great grandma here, show some respect!
But I would think she can't be too far back statistically. I'm surprised how far back Adam could be according to Wiki

And if you do the same on the male side, you're going to reach one of our ancestors eventually... but it's not going to be one who actually necessarily bred with the woman above.

So this isn't a "couple" who generated all of us as in the bible.

Is it? This is rather over my head at the moment I need to learn more about this.

Exactly, it is very unlikely that they even lived in the same millenium

[robvalue]

That's a good point about it not being constant. Thanks for the explanation

Yeah, I suppose... Eve must be pretty closely human. I'm thinking of the idea that if more than one group of "humans" developed apart from each other, or alongside each other, then you'd have to trace back the common ancestor for both groups... would this necessarily be human? If you have to go further back than actual humans to reach it, then it wouldn't be.

But I'm thinking in terms of all humans there, not just those that are now alive. So that's wrong probably. Maybe at one point it wasn't human!?

Ah I'm confused. Need to learn Stop swinging in the dark you twat.

The point to take home for theists is that this is not "a couple" so it in no way correlates with the bible. I think that is probably the biggest blunder that could be made here. Also the idea that original sin happened "at that point" makes no sense, because as you say these are not constant beings. That "point" changes, and the Adam and Eve, whatever they currently are, are probably not even going to be at the same point in time. If the meteorite hit, it would then be your grandmother's fault for original sin. So to try and co-opt science, theists would have to state the actual moment in time where a certain Adam and Eve have been calculated. And it still makes no fucking sense, as they are not a couple or of the same time. So just blame Eve I guess. The slag.

Someone please correct me if that last paragraph is wrong!

[Longhorn]

All this sciency talk is giving me a headache -_-

[Clueless Morgan]

When they say "woman" I assume this isn't going to be a human as we know them today, but one of our ancestors, right?

Mitochondrial Eve lived between about 100,00 and 200,000 years ago so in the timescale of evolution she was right at the time anthropologists think that Homo Sapiens became its own species.  But that's kind of like looking at the electromagnetic spectrum and assigning an exact wavelength to when green ends and blue begins - there is no definite dividing line.

It's the same thing with Y-Chromosomal Adam - he lived more recently that Mitochondrial Eve so he was most definitely a Homo Sapiens.

And if you do the same on the male side, you're going to reach one of our ancestors eventually... but it's not going to be one who actually necessarily bred with the woman above.

Mito-Eve and Y-Adam lived tens of thousands of years apart.  To my understanding, Y-Adam is the paternal ancestor to all males - the one from which every male can trace back his Y-chromosome whereas Mito-Eve is the woman from whom everyone, not just women, can trace their mitochondrial DNA back to (but it must be traced back through the female line only because it's passed down through the egg a woman contributes to an embryo).

So this isn't a "couple" who generated all of us as in the bible.

No.

[robvalue]

Thank you CM I think it's starting to seep through my thick skull now

[abaris]

They didn't live at the same time and of course were part of a bigger population.

There's only the pittance of give or take 100.000 years between them. So really close, if you think about it. What are a 100.000 years between friends anyway?

[Alex K]

They didn't live at the same time and of course were part of a bigger population.

There's only the pittance of give or take 100.000 years between them. So really close, if you think about it. What are a 100.000 years between friends anyway?

So it's not that I don't have any friends - they all live in the future! duh!

[Longhorn]

There's only the pittance of give or take 100.000 years between them. So really close, if you think about it. What are a 100.000 years between friends anyway?

So it's not that I don't have any friends - they all live in the future! duh!

(And all of them are hamsters)