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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 12:28 am
(June 21, 2015 at 12:22 am)Faith No More Wrote: You can use "evil" as an adjective to describe something without believing in some supernatural force behind it.
I have to say nothing would really change. Sure, there would be a lot of things for the better, but we're human beings. We'll be a self-destructive species no matter what people believe in, so we'll find new stuff to wreak havoc with.
^^^ This ^^^
People regardless of their beliefs are, on average, still prone to irrationality and poor decision making.
God belief or religion aren't the problem - certain expressions of them are, and even the irreligious can be prone to idiocy.
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 12:32 am
(June 21, 2015 at 12:01 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 20, 2015 at 11:56 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Considering the vast amount of suffering perpetuated by religion (and the kathy-lick church is by far the worst offender) I would say calling it a force for evil might be a stretch, but not as big a stretch as calling it a force for good.
I did not know you guys believed in forces of evil.
What? We can't speak to others in terms they understand? I can't use a colloquialism because I hold a different belief from you? No, I do not believe good and evil are real things on their own but labels we attach to the actions of people. Care to discuss the point or shall we continue playing meaningless word games?
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 12:41 am
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 12:44 am by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 21, 2015 at 12:22 am)Faith No More Wrote: You can use "evil" as an adjective to describe something without believing in some supernatural force behind it.
I have to say nothing would really change. Sure, there would be a lot of things for the better, but we're human beings. We'll be a self-destructive species no matter what people believe in, so we'll find new stuff to wreak havoc with.
Fair enough, thank you for clarifying.
So when you say "religion is evil", what exactly do you think of religion as being? An entity? A philosophy?
I'm just wondering because sometimes people speak of religion here as being some sort of entity in itself. Rather than saying "some people who are religious have done bad things" you say "religion has sometimes done bad things."
(June 21, 2015 at 12:28 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 12:22 am)Faith No More Wrote: You can use "evil" as an adjective to describe something without believing in some supernatural force behind it.
I have to say nothing would really change. Sure, there would be a lot of things for the better, but we're human beings. We'll be a self-destructive species no matter what people believe in, so we'll find new stuff to wreak havoc with.
^^^ This ^^^
People regardless of their beliefs are, on average, still prone to irrationality and poor decision making.
God belief or religion aren't the problem - certain expressions of them are, and even the irreligious can be prone to idiocy.
Kudos.
(June 21, 2015 at 12:32 am)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 12:01 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I did not know you guys believed in forces of evil.
What? We can't speak to others in terms they understand? I can't use a colloquialism because I hold a different belief from you? No, I do not believe good and evil are real things on their own but labels we attach to the actions of people. Care to discuss the point or shall we continue playing meaningless word games?
I never said you couldn't do any of those things. Just made an observation.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 12:56 am
People are people. We would find some way of quibbling over some such thing or another.
Going by the number of theists that say you can't be moral without a god, my position is that if religion is the only thing keeping them from performing unspeakable acts, then religion might need to hang around.
Now, if we could only get them to keep it in their pants, we'd all be happy. Stop trying to legislate your version of morality, and behave like you've given the Constitution at least a once over, and I'd be happy for religion to stay around.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 12:59 am
(June 21, 2015 at 12:41 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 12:32 am)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: What? We can't speak to others in terms they understand? I can't use a colloquialism because I hold a different belief from you? No, I do not believe good and evil are real things on their own but labels we attach to the actions of people. Care to discuss the point or shall we continue playing meaningless word games?
I never said you couldn't do any of those things. Just made an observation.
So, you don't want to discuss then point. Ok, then.
Why'd you ask?
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 1:00 am
(June 21, 2015 at 12:59 am)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 12:41 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I never said you couldn't do any of those things. Just made an observation.
So, you don't want to discuss then point. Ok, then.
Why'd you ask?
Ask what?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 1:46 am
I chose "other" because I don't think the rejection of theism is actually elevating. Universal atheism wouldn't necessarily signify any kind of general enlightenment. Personally I'm not eager for theists to go extinct. I would be pleased if they would at least become better theists, strive for more self-honesty and make more modest claims. I wish they would eschew belief and maintain faith in the truth as they find it, whether that be theism or otherwise.
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 1:50 am
Quote:If everyone was atheist
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 1:53 am
(June 21, 2015 at 1:46 am)whateverist Wrote: I chose "other" because I don't think the rejection of theism is actually elevating. Universal atheism wouldn't necessarily signify any kind of general enlightenment. Personally I'm not eager for theists to go extinct. I would be pleased if they would at least become better theists, strive for more self-honesty and make more modest claims. I wish they would eschew belief and maintain faith in the truth as they find it, whether that be theism or otherwise. my bolding
I agree completely.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 2:33 am
I think of the South Park episode "Go God Go" where Cartman goes to the future and everyone is an atheist. They are fighting over whether it should be the United Atheist Alliance or the United Atheist League or the Allied Atheist Allegiance.
Science Damn It!!!!
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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