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RE: Why Does Atheism Have to be False?
June 21, 2015 at 5:00 am
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 5:04 am by crosssaves.)
(June 21, 2015 at 4:25 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Not this again.
The argument here boils down to everything needs a cause....except this one thing.
Crosssaves then tacks on that it happens to be the thing they believed in all the time, how convenient.
Maybe the thing that doesn't require a cause is the universe!
At least we know that that is a real thing unlike what ever flavour of god crossaves believes in.
The one thing that doesn't need a cause is that which is uncreated. It would be illogical to say the uncaused cause has a cause. That's a self-contradiction.
We all have an ability to recognize this simple proof of the uncreated Creator in the opening post so none of us are without excuse. Not everyone who accepts the uncreated Creator have accepted the true uncreated Creator in history. You still have to get the right God.
As was already said the universe could not always have existed, without a cause, because you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so. You would need to address this problem of your beliefs in the opening post.
The real thing is the uncreated Creator. All flows from Him. Like I said, don't argue over which uncreated Creator is the correct one before realizing the uncreated Creator exists. That is jumping ahead getting ahead of yourself.
(June 21, 2015 at 4:58 am)Alex K Wrote: Your notion of creating or causing something outside time and space is invalid. Causation relies on a time line.
Supernatural causation does not rely on time, obviously, since it brings time into existence and nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time an space, being uncreated BECAUSE nature could not always have existed. At least you agree that which does not exist can't bring time and space into being.
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RE: Why Does Atheism Have to be False?
June 21, 2015 at 5:10 am
Supernatural.
Right.
Here we call it 'special pleading', but whatever.
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RE: Why Does Atheism Have to be False?
June 21, 2015 at 5:10 am
For nature having to "come from" something implies nature wasn't always there.
You're just asserting a load of things that have not been scientifically demonstrated, because they are your vague attempt to decide what is and isn't possible.
I can skip all of this of course and just say I don't care whether there is a god or not. Why should I care?
You might like to try owning your beliefs and not just calling us "wrong".
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RE: Why Does Atheism Have to be False?
June 21, 2015 at 5:11 am
If infinite regress is impossible, please give me the smallest negative fraction.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Why Does Atheism Have to be False?
June 21, 2015 at 5:13 am
(June 21, 2015 at 5:00 am)crosssaves Wrote: As was already said the universe could not always have existed, without a cause, because you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so. You would need to address this problem of your beliefs in the opening post.
I don't recall anyone here asserting that the Universe always existed? For the sake of argument though, did your uncreated creator always exist before he got bored and started creating the Universe?
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RE: Why Does Atheism Have to be False?
June 21, 2015 at 5:14 am
Supernatural causation.
Ok.
I think I rest my case.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Why Does Atheism Have to be False?
June 21, 2015 at 5:15 am
(June 21, 2015 at 5:10 am)Neimenovic Wrote: Supernatural.
Right.
Here we call it 'special pleading', but whatever.
Ok now you start freaking me out. I didn't know that you spy skills involve mind reading 
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Why Does Atheism Have to be False?
June 21, 2015 at 5:15 am
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 5:21 am by crosssaves.)
(June 21, 2015 at 5:13 am)TubbyTubby Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 5:00 am)crosssaves Wrote: As was already said the universe could not always have existed, without a cause, because you would have happened already, having had an eternity to do so. You would need to address this problem of your beliefs in the opening post.
I don't recall anyone here asserting that the Universe always existed? For the sake of argument though, did your uncreated creator always exist before he got bored and started creating the Universe? I am so glad that if an atheist thought the universe always existed, you would correct them on that fallacy. Atheists can't seem to agree on the reason why they believe what they believe. You're all over the place.
It wouldn't make sense to claim God got bored as you understand boredom as you experience in space and time, because time did not exist before God created, but it is certainly would be God's prerogative to create out of His glory to bring time and space into being.
My thinking here is you trying to bring God down to your level as if your level is the guiding principle rather than God who created you. Seems self-absorbed, self-centered even self-righteous, but nonetheless deluded.
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RE: Why Does Atheism Have to be False?
June 21, 2015 at 5:16 am
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 5:18 am by robvalue.)
If time did not exist, how can God do anything?
Actions are temporal.
You are stating an awful lot of assertions as if they are scientific fact.
I presume you have a particular favourite God and aren't suggesting a deistic God? And why should I care, again?
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RE: Why Does Atheism Have to be False?
June 21, 2015 at 5:22 am
Right. And you know all that how exactly?
you fucking don't
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