Church and State

[das_atheist]

Saw something today when I was applying to get a replacement birth certificate.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Are you objecting to the use of religious records as a certification of birth?  Why?

Boru

[vorlon13]

I'd posit most are accurate, I'd only have doubts about anything the Scientologists or the Mormons pulled out of their ass.

[Minimalist]

I wouldn't trust anything written in a fucking family bible.

[das_atheist]

Are you objecting to the use of religious records as a certification of birth?  Why?

Boru

Yes.

The first amendment does not allow the state to respect the church in any legal way. It also lets you pray in school so don't be too mad.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

[Faith No More]

I fail to see how that is respecting an establishment of religion.

[das_atheist]

I fail to see how that is respecting an establishment of religion.

Respecting is defined as, "with reference or regard to".

The law references the church as an authority on birth certificates.

When someone gets married at a church, the state doesn't recognize that. That's because the state isn't allowed to respect the church. The same should apply for the birth certificate.

[Minimalist]

My dad was born at home, in Brooklyn, NY, in 1916 to two Italian immigrants whose English was, at best, rudimentary.  He had two birth certificates, both handwritten on the official form, and one filled out by the mid-wife who handled the delivery and the other apparently written out by the city registrar some days later.  He had two different birth dates, two different middle names...neither of which he used.... and when he enlisted in 1942 the army gave him a third birthdate.  You want to talk about a paperwork clusterfuck.

So there might well be a reason why someone in the hinterlands might have needed some back up.  Shit happens.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I'm with FNM on this one.  Using an entry in a family Bible or a baptismal record doesn't exactly establish a religion.  I fairly sure the amendment is a safeguard against the establishment of an official State religion.  This is nothing even remotely like that.

Boru

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Respecting is defined as, "with reference or regard to".

The law references the church as an authority on birth certificates.

When someone gets married at a church, the state doesn't recognize that either.

But the amendment doesn't read 'respecting religion', it reads 'respecting an establishment of religion'.  Using a church record to verify a birth doesn't establish a religion.

Boru