Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach

[Pizza]

"However, taken together with the beliefs of the disciples, as well as Paul and James, that they had seen the risen Jesus, the empty tomb provides powerful support in favor of the resurrection."

How so?

[Minimalist]

However, Habermas' research suggests that Fact #5 does have the support of a majority of these scholars for the following three reasons.

But they are all xtian shitheads...just like you.  Who cares what they think.  Where is the evidence. 

Oh, and btw, there are several tombs claimed for this "honor."  Which one was empty?

[Jenny A]

But the bible says so.    

It does.

But people knew of God long before the Bible was ever written, so there's that.

Well, they believed in gods anyway.  Not only the surrounding cultures, but the Hebrews were clearly polytheists.  And mostly they believed those gods were bound to a location.

[Pizza]

Enemy Attestation

The scriptures attest to the empty tomb, but so do Jesus’ enemies, albeit indirectly. The gospels record that the Jews claimed that Jesus’ disciples stole the body—thus admitting that they tomb was empty. This is recorded by multiple independent sources (Mt. 28:12-13, Justin Martyr, Trypho 108, Tertullian, De Spectacullis 30). The theft of the body (and thus the empty tomb) is the only opposing theory offered by Jesus’ enemies.

Where are those writers(Mt. 28:12-13, Justin Martyr, Trypho 108, Tertullian, De Spectacullis 30) getting their source material from?

How does non-Christians trying to explanation away claims of an empty tomb support an actually empty tomb? This like supporting the claim, "911 was an inside job" with "because people were criticizing the claim from around the post-2001 period"

[Minimalist]

albeit indirectly.

Meaning not at all.

[Randy Carson]

You know, Randy... This women thing really gets to me.
Learn about Livia, Augustus' wife.
Learn about Nefertiti and Cleopatra, of Egypt.

How could such women become as great as they have, if the culture was so against them as you wish to depict it?

Did I make this up?

"Sooner let the words of the Law be burn than delivered to women." (Talmud, Sotah 19a)

"The world cannot exist without males and without females--happy is he whose children are males, and woe to him whose children are females." (Talmud, Kiddushin 82b)

"Any evidence which a woman [gives] is not valid (to offer), also they are not valid to offer. This is equivalent to saying that one who Rabbinically accounted a robber is qualified to give the same evidence a a woman." (Talmud, Rosh Hashannah 1.8)

"But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense." (Luke 24:11)

"Whereas men and women had hitherto always sat together, Augustus confined women to the back rows even at gladitorial shows: the only ones exempt from this were the Vestal Virgins, for whom separate accommodation was provided, facing the praetor's tribunal. No women at all were allowed to witness the athletic contests; indeed, when the audience clamored at the Games for a special boxing match to celebrate his appointment as Chief Priest, Augustus postponed this until early the next morning and issued a proclamation to the effect that it was the Chief Priest's desire that women should not attend the theatre before ten o'clock." (Suetonius, The Twelve Caesars, Augustus 44).


Given the low view of women shared by many first-century Jews and Gentiles, it seems unlikely that the gospel authors would put the crucial testimony about the resurrection of Jesus into the mouths of women who simply would not be believed by many who heard of these reports.

[Randy Carson]

Or the culture in Israel was that different from the civilized Rome and Egypt? And it was among the uncivilized that your god chose to make himself known, huh? What a way to make itself known!

1 Corinthians 1:27
But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

[Randy Carson]

"However, taken together with the beliefs of the disciples, as well as Paul and James, that they had seen the risen Jesus, the empty tomb provides powerful support in favor of the resurrection."

How so?

The disciples claimed that they saw Jesus alive.

If the body was still in the tomb, all the Jews (or Romans) had to do was to produce the corpse and Christianity would have ended right then.

Instead, even the Jews acknowledged that the tomb was empty.

(They accused the disciples of stealing the body.)

[Randy Carson]

Enemy Attestation

The scriptures attest to the empty tomb, but so do Jesus’ enemies, albeit indirectly. The gospels record that the Jews claimed that Jesus’ disciples stole the body—thus admitting that they tomb was empty. This is recorded by multiple independent sources (Mt. 28:12-13, Justin Martyr, Trypho 108, Tertullian, De Spectacullis 30). The theft of the body (and thus the empty tomb) is the only opposing theory offered by Jesus’ enemies.

Where are those writers(Mt. 28:12-13, Justin Martyr, Trypho 108, Tertullian, De Spectacullis 30) getting their source material from?

How does non-Christians trying to explanation away claims of an empty tomb support an actually empty tomb? This like supporting the claim, "911 was an inside job" with "because people were criticizing the claim from around the post-2001 period"

If the body was still in the tomb, all the Jews had to do was open it up and let everyone look inside. Or put the body on display.

They didn't because they couldn't. There was no body in the tomb.

[Minimalist]

If the body was still in the tomb, all the Jews (or Romans) had to do was to produce the corpse and Christianity would have ended right then.

The first mention of any fucker named 'jesus' by a Roman writer was Celsus c 180...and for that we have to rely on the 3d century xtian writer, Origen.