Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach

[Minimalist]

Obi-Wan Kenobi did not actually rise from the dead physically.

Neither did fucking jesus, dummy.

[Spooky]

And his only source of "proof" for the supposed "facts".

Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Lucian, Mara Bar Serapion, The Talmud...

And you have?




<crickets>

45% of my library dedicated to non-fiction.



You see those two full shelves to the right?  They're all non-fiction.  I have that and the rest of non mythological history.  But at the very least you've given me an excuse to show off my rearranged Library.  Thanks for that.

[Angrboda]

Okay, I'll play.

1. Jesus died by crucifixion

Let's assume he existed.  His manner of death adds nothing to the claim that he resurrected from the dead.  But let's assume this is true.

2. Jesus' disciples believed that He rose and appeared to them

That Jesus rose and appeared to his disciples is a legend which developed between his death and the writing of the gospels. Maybe it was even started by the disciples; people don't always think through the consequences of their actions. It's not even clear that what might start out as a lie could not have come to be seen as the truth by some disciples; it's well within the range of normal human behavior.
That the disciples were martyred for their beliefs are either mistakes of interpretation (dying for something other than belief), or were legends which were added after the gospels were written.

3. Saul, the persecutor of the Church, was suddenly changed

People change for all sorts of reasons.  A resurrection isn't the only explanation for why a hallucinating fanatic might change his tune.  Either way, it doesn't solely support a resurrection, so it's a moot point.

4. James, the skeptical brother of Jesus, was suddenly changed

The same as for Paul.

5. Jesus' tomb was found to be empty

Was Jesus' tomb found empty?  Or was this a part of the later resurrection legend.  It's interesting to note that there was no tomb veneration for the first few centuries after his death.  That's odd because even an empty tomb would have attracted veneration.  Did they just forget where he was buried?  Regardless, the reasons a tomb might go empty are many, it doesn't necessarily point to a resurrection.  For lack of a better option, let's take Ehrman's hypothetical that the body was being moved, and those doing the moving were slain by Roman guards.


All facts accounted for with no physical resurrection.

[Minimalist]

Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Lucian, Mara Bar Serapion, The Talmud...

Randy reminds me of this:


How to keep an idiot entertained all day.

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How to keep an idiot entertained all day.
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Just keep chasing your tail, dickhead.

[Cyberman]

1. Obi-Wan Kenobi died in a lightsabre duel.
2. Kenobi's apprentice and former master saw he had risen and appeared to them.
3. Darth Vader, the persecutor of the Jedi, was suddenly changed.
4. Han Solo, the sceptical pilot for Kenobi, was suddenly changed.
5. Kenobi's robes were found to be empty.

 My God!!!! that was so PERFECT!!

I have to hug you 

Well, you're only human...

[Minimalist]

That was a brilliant analogy, Stim.  I'm sure it went completely over the head of the jackass.

[Pizza]

When I play a strategy RPGs like Fire Emblem or Final Fantasy Tactics, if my character has a below 10% chance of hitting my target and my target has a 89% chance of counterattacking, I don't risk it. If Jesus resurrecting is below 9% and dead bodies not resurrecting is 90%, then I don't care about it.

[Spooky]

When I play a strategy RPGs like Fire Emblem or Final Fantasy Tactics, if my character has a below 10% chance of hitting my target and my target has a 89% chance of counterattacking, I don't risk it. If Jesus resurrecting is below 9% and dead bodies not resurrecting is 90%, then I don't care about it.

Tales of Vesparia FTW...

[Pizza]

When I play a strategy RPGs like Fire Emblem or Final Fantasy Tactics, if my character has a below 10% chance of hitting my target and my target has a 89% chance of counterattacking, I don't risk it. If Jesus resurrecting is below 9% and dead bodies not resurrecting is 90%, then I don't care about it.

Tales of Vesparia FTW...

I've never played that game. I don't own many video games and consoles.

[robvalue]

Is there any atheist here who would make any changes to their life if it was conclusively proved some guy did actually come back to life after 3 days of being dead? Other than learning that such a thing is possible, of course.

I can't see that it is of any consequence. Just a very unusual historical event.

Maybe I should make a poll about that