Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 11, 2024, 5:49 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Best of all possible worlds offense
#1
Best of all possible worlds offense
I'm sure we've all heard the best of all possible worlds defense. The gist of it is that while things might look bad, and we'd wonder why a good god would allow it, perhaps God only has so much control over the universe, and this setup nets the greatest possible good.

Now, it's presuppositional as hell, and that's where it's greatest weakness lies. Once you're willing to go down that road, you can really start presupposing anything under these assumptions. The apologetic can be neatly turned against the apologist.

So, the apologist starts by assuming that things like horrible childhood illnesses are here because they are part of the greatest possible good. I'd say that sounds preposterous and that I can't possibly see how the world gets worse by removing them. The closest thing to a sane defense is for the apologist to say that the plan is so big and grand, that I can't possibly see it all, and I lack the foresight and judgment of Almighty God. Fair enough (well, not really). Lets try another scenario:

Can the apologist prove that the best possible good isn't attained by God sometimes lying to his people? Of course not. The idea is as nonfalsifiable as is the idea that God would never lie. I'll posit that we can't really understand what's "good for us", and God lies when it helps things. Their best defense would basically be to say "Nuh uh! That's not the god I believe in!", because that's all they've really got at this point: a preconceived notion of God and some nonfalsifiable defenses to prop up that god.

As long as we're willing to go that far, I could posit that the "greatest possible good" isn't really "good" in any sense that we'd use the word; it's just the exact outcome God wants. Again, can the apologist prove that childhood diseases aren't an ends unto themselves? Maybe that's exactly what he wants. It's not part of some puzzle to make the world a "better" place in some cryptic fashion; God just likes watching people suffer. Again, you'll be written off because this isn't the god that they want to picture. You only employ nonfalsifiable apologetics to uphold what you want, not what you don't.

In short, I think this illustrates how much this stock apologetic relies on circular reasoning (assume the god you want, then prove it by assuming it!) and special pleading (but don't prove gods you don't like by assuming). It's yet another tool to make the believer feel better while offering nothing of substance to a skeptic.
Reply
#2
RE: Best of all possible worlds offense
All are one God. It is unity and a way of being that we may again attain despite our retched, manipulative, twisted inherent ways. That is the grace. Yes evil very well is a separate thing. It is indeed the unspeakable for mere speech or even thought of such is enough to derail this frail balance. Diseases, cancers natural disasters things seemingly out of our control can be linked to evil, bad, negative, or chaos, anarchy, indifference, the actual waste of energy. Even mathematics the true science is intricately enveloped in true philosophy. Positive+ Positive= positive.
negative+ negative= negative
=positive+ =negative= fucking nothing the absence there of.
Positive+ >negative= positive.

So forth and so on.
Reply
#3
RE: Best of all possible worlds offense
...What? Not a lick of that makes any sense, scientifically or grammatically.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
Reply
#4
RE: Best of all possible worlds offense
here goes round 2.
This time it's a marriage of pure mathematics and the "dumb" brother "philosophy".

2B or not 2B, that is the calculus ...
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
Reply
#5
RE: Best of all possible worlds offense
(June 25, 2015 at 8:51 am)popsthebuilder Wrote: All are one God. It is unity and a way of being that we may again attain despite our retched, manipulative, twisted inherent ways. That is the grace. Yes evil very well is a separate thing. It is indeed the unspeakable for mere speech or even thought of such is enough to derail this frail balance. Diseases, cancers natural disasters things seemingly out of our control can be linked to evil, bad, negative, or chaos, anarchy, indifference, the actual waste of energy. Even mathematics the true science is intricately enveloped in true philosophy. Positive+ Positive= positive.
negative+ negative= negative
=positive+ =negative= fucking nothing the absence there of.
Positive+ >negative= positive.

So forth and so on.

Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?

You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It's just common sense.
Reply
#6
RE: Best of all possible worlds offense
There another implicit assumption that often gets overlooked. These arguments assume that God actually cares about us at all. Like you say, what he wants may well not be best for us. It might even be terrible for us. How can we tell the difference between a good god who doesn't lie, and a lying God who tells us he doesn't lie? Unless you have God-lie detecting powers, you can't. So all you can judge it on is his "actions" which are shit.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
Reply
#7
RE: Best of all possible worlds offense
RobbyPants, the scary part is my brain filled in the subliminal holes and I read it clearly like I'm listening to Luigi speak...

In fact, I'm suspecting his autocorrect wrote the whole thing on its own!
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
Reply
#8
RE: Best of all possible worlds offense
(June 25, 2015 at 8:51 am)popsthebuilder Wrote: All are one God. It is unity and a way of being that we may again attain despite our retched, manipulative, twisted inherent ways. That is the grace. Yes evil very well is a separate thing. It is indeed the unspeakable for mere speech or even thought of such is enough to derail this frail balance. Diseases, cancers natural disasters things seemingly out of our control can be linked to evil, bad, negative, or chaos, anarchy, indifference, the actual waste of energy. Even mathematics the true science is intricately enveloped in true philosophy. Positive+ Positive= positive.
negative+ negative= negative
=positive+ =negative= fucking nothing the absence there of.
Positive+ >negative= positive.

So forth and so on.
Not quite sure which DSM 5 to assign to you but do know that you appear to need professional help.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
Reply
#9
RE: Best of all possible worlds offense
Jfyi; it states to fear not that the lord will give the truth when conversing nonbelievers. In faith and right positive of course.
Reply
#10
RE: Best of all possible worlds offense
....of course.

O_o
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Three in five British adults say miracles are possible zebo-the-fat 15 2490 September 30, 2018 at 2:32 pm
Last Post: Pat Mustard
  Is it possible to avoid masterbation or nocturnal emission if you aren't married ? The Wise Joker 63 11604 January 31, 2017 at 8:11 pm
Last Post: Rev. Rye
  Is it possible for someone to take away the judgement from God? verbral 31 5143 November 12, 2016 at 10:49 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us..." should we be grateful? Whateverist 325 79294 July 21, 2015 at 3:02 pm
Last Post: Tiberius
  Perfect, Best of Possible, or Better than Nothing: Which criterion? Hatshepsut 35 7969 May 19, 2015 at 6:12 am
Last Post: robvalue
  Is it possible to be a gay Christian? Dystopia 84 10325 July 30, 2014 at 7:05 pm
Last Post: Raven
  Is it possible to be "born again" without faith? naturestubbs1 11 4362 July 9, 2014 at 6:27 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Sanal Edamaruku is facing possible arrest in India for debunking a Jesus water drippi Ziploc Surprise 14 9448 April 13, 2012 at 1:59 pm
Last Post: genkaus
Question Is it possible there are some parodists among the authors in Answers in Genesis? Indian Chimpanzee 5 2082 October 9, 2011 at 7:01 am
Last Post: Gawdzilla



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)