possible origins of islam (higher criticism scholars/ history nuts welcome)

[Homeless Nutter]

It does not take much effort to provoke muslims just draw a cartoon and they all go ape shit.

You don't really need to go that far.
All you need, in order to piss off muslims, is to - you know - not be a muslim.
And even if you are one - you'd better be the "right" kind...

[ReptilianPeon]

[Psychonaut]

[Justtristo]

I suggest you read Robert Spencer's "Did Mohammed Exist?"  The muslims go birdshit over it but they go birdshit over almost everything so that is no barrier.

There is evidence for the existence of a man who the character of Muhammad was based on in the text of Doctrina Jacobi written in Palestine between 634 and 640, which I will quote below. However I do believe the character of Muhammad has been very heavily mythologized. Not to mention that the Sira the earliest biographies of Muhammad were written down around one to two centuries after his supposed death.

When the candidatus [that is, a member of the Byzantine imperial guard] was killed by the Saracens [Sarakenoi], I was at Caesarea and I set off by boat to Sykamina. People were saying "the candidatus has been killed," and we Jews were overjoyed. And they were saying that the prophet had appeared, coming with the Saracens, and that he was proclaiming the advent of the anointed one, the Christ who was to come.

    I, having arrived at Sykamina, stopped by a certain old man well-versed in scriptures, and I said to him: "What can you tell me about the prophet who has appeared with the Saracens?" He replied, groaning deeply: "He is false, for the prophets do not come armed with a sword. Truly they are works of anarchy being committed today and I fear that the first Christ to come, whom the Christians worship, was the one sent by God and we instead are preparing to receive the Antichrist. Indeed, Isaiah said that the Jews would retain a perverted and hardened heart until all the earth should be devastated. But you go, master Abraham, and find out about the prophet who has appeared."

    So I, Abraham, inquired and heard from those who had met him that there was no truth to be found in the so-called prophet, only the shedding of men's blood. He says also that he has the keys of paradise, which is incredible [i.e., not credible].

I would recommend reading the In the Shadow of the Sword by Tom Holland about a credible hypothesis about the real origins of Islam. This hypothesis is supported strongly by what historic evidence we have and answers a lot more questions about how Islam emerged, than the traditional Islamic accounts do.

[Psychonaut]

[Minimalist]

Hey, Just. 

No muslim in his right mind (admittedly a small sample) would use the Doctrina Jacobi.  All it gives them is an alleged appearance of a "prophet" among the Saracens, which was a Greco-Roman term for any one from Arabia but two years after he supposedly died and flew up to fucking heaven or something.

So I, Abraham, inquired and heard from those who had met him that there was no truth to be found in the so-called prophet, only the shedding of men's blood. He says also that he has the keys of paradise, which is incredible [i.e., not credible].

That line could get copious amounts of rocks thrown at your head...which seems to be the way they handle dissent.

[ReptilianPeon]

Psychonaut, thank you for your insight. Hanif was always an odd word for me. Pagan =/= Islam. And the burden of proof is on the Muhammadans to prove that Israelites did not drink alcohol. If, as is claimed, there was a lost version of the Bible which agreed with the Quran then it should follow that Jews would not have drunk alcohol.

Petra is in Jordan and was the Qibla of many early Mosques. The reason I mentioned Lebanon is the Valley of Bakka, because Bakka is used in the Quran to refer to Mecca once or twice.

[Psychonaut]

Psychonaut, thank you for your insight. Hanif was always an odd word for me. Pagan =/= Islam. And the burden of proof is on the Muhammadans to prove that Israelites did not drink alcohol. If, as is claimed, there was a lost version of the Bible which agreed with the Quran then it should follow that Jews would not have drunk alcohol.

Petra is in Jordan and was the Qibla of many early Mosques. The reason I mentioned Lebanon is the Valley of Bakka, because Bakka is used in the Quran to refer to Mecca once or twice.

There are mixed views on alcohol throughout the bible, which as you probably know, shows in the quran. 
like in quran 16:67, where the date, which provides people with strong drink, meaning alcohol, is a sign from god, but in 5:90, it is the handiwork of satan. 

Regarding Lebanon, The Beqaa was exactly what got me thinking about bakka as originally just being the beqaa valley. It's got the agricultural framework to be appropriate for where the quran is referring to. I'm not fluent with the Fus7ah, so I don't know why mekka and bekka is written as makkat and bakkat. The t alludes me completely, but it may be just an archaic letter that has been dropped over time, much like how aalam (meaning pen) is pronounced in the fus7ah as qalam. I may be way off though.

[Minimalist]