Disproving The Resurrection By The Maximal Facts Approach

[KevinM1]

Wait... a person is also considered to be a trinity between body, soul, and spirit? Aren't soul and spirit synonyms?

[Anomalocaris]

You do realize that Jesus rose on the morning of the third day, so that falls well within your 24-72 hour period....

I know I'm going back in this thread, but can I just say, this entire exchange is fucking gold. Huggy you are one of a kind.

Intelligent people who base their thoughts on facts tend to think alike.   Christian morons are, on the other hand, each moronic in his own way.

[Huggy Bear]

Wait... a person is also considered to be a trinity between body, soul, and spirit?  Aren't soul and spirit synonyms?

No, soul and spirit are two different things.

If you notice man was created on the sixth day of creation, in the image of God which is spirit...

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. - John 4:24

Adam was the first (spirit) man God created a body for, formed from the dust, God breathed into him making him a "living soul"

[Cato]

If you notice man was created on the sixth day of creation, in the image of God which is spirit...

A demonstrably false claim. We know that humans did not come into being in this fashion. Believe what you wish, but just know that you're wrong.

[KevinM1]

Wait... a person is also considered to be a trinity between body, soul, and spirit?  Aren't soul and spirit synonyms?

No, soul and spirit are two different things.

If you notice man was created on the sixth day of creation, in the image of God which is spirit...

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. - John 4:24

Adam was the first (spirit) man God created a body for, formed from the dust, God breathed into him making him a "living soul"

I'm afraid that doesn't really clear it up.  You're saying there's a difference between two intangible things without actually explaining the difference itself.  It also seems like you're adding information that's not there, since Genesis merely states that Adam's body was made from dust, and that god breathed life into it.  Nothing there about "well, he was a spirit, but now he's a soul."  Indeed, it's pretty clear that Adam was just an empty vessel until god filled it with life.

[Minimalist]

Similarly, I don't need to have been present in 1st century Palestine to judge the Resurrection as non-historical.  Given the number of other mythological resurrections we reject out of hand coupled with the fact that no human body that has started the decay process ('by this time he stinketh') has ever been observed to have returned to life, it is more reasonable to reject the bodily resurrection of Jesus than it is to accept it.

*emphasis mine*
I guess you missed the part in the bible where prophecy concerning the resurrection of the messiah explicitly state that his body would be raised up before it started to decay.

"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." - Psalm 16:10

Are you seriously trying to defend horseshit with more horseshit?  WTF is wrong with you?

[tonechaser77]

There are so many contradictions inside the story of Jesus that you can't help but wonder what the hell was going on here. Many of these contradictions occur because of fighting sects of believers (Gnostics, Marcionites, Nicenes, etc)  attempting to disprove the other by blatantly 'adding too' and 'taking away'.  It's a big mess that takes an enormous amount of untangling. 

--Does this sound like the doing of a perfect god? 
--Would a god who wanted to be in relationship, through his son, with us, provide such controversial evidence of his existence, even controversial evidence of the existence of his son? 
--If a god existed and wanted to be in harmony with humans by sending a savior to eradicate sin, don't you think he would at least prevent human minds from contradicting one another to prevent such confusion on whether he really existed at all? Or all the actions he performed while on earth?

The evidence should be non-falsifiable in all points. God shouldn't need a human being to defend his story because of his own stupidity in allowing us to fuck it up. 

...Some issues that I'm framing from all the discussion in this thread...

Where was Jesus at the sixth hour on the day of the crucifixion? 
- On the cross (Mark 15:23)
-In Pilates court (John 19:14)

Did Jesus ascend to Paradise the same day of the crucifixion?
-Yes He said to the thief who defended him, Today you will be with me in Paradise (Luke 23:43)
-No. He said to Mary Magdelene two days later, I have not yet ascended to the Father (John 20:17)
-No. ...that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures (I Cor. 15:4) 

Was Jesus crucified on the daytime before the Passover meal or the daytime after?
-After (Mark 14:12-17)
-Before. Before the feast of the Passover (John 1) Judas went out at night (John 13:30). The other disciples thought he was going out to buy supplies to prepare for the Passover meal (John 13:29). When Jesus was arrested, the Jews did not enter Pilates judgment hail because they wanted to stay clean to eat the Passover (John 18:28). When the judgment was pronounced against Jesus, it was about the sixth hour on the day of Preparation for the Passover (John 19:14)

A large stone was placed at the entrance of the tomb. Where was the stone when the women arrived?
--They saw that the stone was Rolled back (Mark 16:4) They found the stone rolled away from the tomb (Luke 24:2) They saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb (John 20:1)
--As the women approached, an angel descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and conversed with the women. Matthew made the women witness the spectacular rolling away of the stone (Matthew 28:1-6)

When did Mary Magdelene first meet the resurrected Jesus? And how did she react?
--Mary and the other women met Jesus on their way back from their first and only visit to the tomb. They took hold of his feet and worshipped him (Matthew 28:9)
--On her second visit to the tomb Mary met Jesus just outside the tomb. When she saw Jesus she did not recognize him. She mistook him for the gardener. She still thinks that Jesus body is laid to rest somewhere and she demands to know where. But when Jesus said her name she at once recognized him and called him Teacher. Jesus said to her, Do not hold me... (John 20:11 to 17)

I apologize for being crass but wake the fuck up people. Use your damn REASONING. How many times do we have to disprove the same stories over and over and over again?

[The Valkyrie]

Considering there are no accounts outside the bible, especially the whole dead rising from their graves and interacting with the living thing (which you would have thought the Romans would have noticed and recorded).

[Randy Carson]

*emphasis mine*
I guess you missed the part in the bible where prophecy concerning the resurrection of the messiah explicitly state that his body would be raised up before it started to decay.

"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." - Psalm 16:10

Then either Psalm 16:10 is wrong (and therefore not a prophecy) or Jesus was not the messiah, since (as SD pointed out) a body dead for three days is going to be at least partly decayed.

So, which way will you have it:  Is the Psalm wrong, or are the NT accounts in Mark and Matthew both wrong?

Boru

Or are you wrong?

God, who created all things out of nothing, could simply prevent the decay process from beginning in the first place.

[Randy Carson]

Considering that the average body's organs start to decay within a 24-72 hour period and begins to bloat within 3 days while keeping in mind that the condition of a body that was beaten and crucified isn't exactly average to begin with.... yeah. Pretty sure there was some decay going on. Twit.

You do realize that Jesus rose on the morning of the third day, so that falls well within your 24-72 hour period....

Friday (from about 3:00pm on)
Saturday (all day)
Sunday (until about 6:00am or so)

Three "days" by Jewish reckoning but about 39 hours of elapsed time.