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Current time: December 5, 2024, 12:27 am

Poll: Is it rational to be rational?
This poll is closed.
Yes, rationality can rationally be shown to be an objective good.
21.05%
4 21.05%
Yes, by definition.
21.05%
4 21.05%
I'm not sure.
5.26%
1 5.26%
No, but obviously it is a damned good thing to be.
0%
0 0%
No, rationality has utility and has nothing to do with what we "should be".
21.05%
4 21.05%
Other, please explain.
0%
0 0%
None of the above.
0%
0 0%
I fucking hate polls.
31.58%
6 31.58%
Total 19 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Is it rational to maximize rationality?
#11
RE: Is it rational to maximize rationality?
Letting art lead you is irrational.

Letting rationality lead you is artless.

Waddayagonna do?
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#12
RE: Is it rational to maximize rationality?
(July 7, 2015 at 4:28 pm)robvalue Wrote: Tada! You can't avoid it Big Grin

You can't make good decisions about how rational to be, and when, without being rational Big Grin

It's one of those catcher in the rye 27 things.
I love that book! Which things are you referring to?

(July 7, 2015 at 5:32 pm)whateverist Wrote: Letting art lead you is irrational.

Letting rationality lead you is artless.

Waddayagonna do?

False and...false.
Letting art lead you is not irrational if you like art for it's own sake and it isn't harmful over all(if you care about that) - which we can't exactly know or find out without being rational (waddayaknow?).
Letting rationality lead you might therefore not be artless, at least not necessarily, since being rational might involve art.
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#13
RE: Is it rational to maximize rationality?
Rationality in all things and if you're not being rational, you're doing something wrong.
There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide mankind that cannot be achieved as well or better through secular means.
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#14
RE: Is it rational to maximize rationality?
So, are people saying that it is rational to be irrational?  Or that it is irrational to be rational?

"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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#15
RE: Is it rational to maximize rationality?
(July 7, 2015 at 4:19 pm)Panglossian Wrote: By maximising rationality, I'm assuming you mean to always be as logical as possible. It seems to me that such an outlook would dull ones appreciation for artistic things like music due to its inherently visceral nature i.e. rarely invoking thought.

It may also cause an inability to suspend disbelief, and thus a lack of enjoyment for fiction ("that would never happen", "this is scientifically inaccurate", "why is she wearing makeup during a zombie apocalypse" etc.).

Also, while strict logicians and pragmatists are exceptionally suited to a lot of fields (programming, economics, law and avoiding harmful delusions to name a few), they tend to over-analyse or correct people in social situations.

...

Actually, having now listed a few possible drawbacks of total rationality, it seems evidently possible to identify and avoid these eventualities through the very same pragmatic mindset that led to them in the first place.  

Argh, my poor little brain can't process vicious circles.

Maybe it would be worth splitting the word rationalism into more specific definitions: logical rationalism - whereby only the path of the pragmatist is taken (sounds slightly sociopathic to me), and pensive rationalism - whereby one imagines the implications of the manner in which they approach life


Appreciating art is a non-rational endeavor. It is outside the purview of rationality. 

Therefore, even the most rational person has the ability to appreciate art without the need to insert a rational thought process. The arts utilize another part of the mind, that does not require rational thought.

When it comes to evaluating existential claims, the physical world around me, philosophy, science, etc, I try to remove all as much irrationality as possible and evaluate purely on the evidence. 

When it comes to appreciating the arts, I suspend my rationality as much as possible, and appreciate it purely on its artistic merit.

Being super rational and appreciating art are not mutually exclusive.

Einstein played violin at a pretty high level. Asimov wrote great sci-fi. Benjamin Franklin played music and invented musical instruments. Brian May (guitarist with Queen) has a PhD in astronomy.

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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#16
RE: Is it rational to maximize rationality?
(July 7, 2015 at 7:40 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:
(July 7, 2015 at 4:19 pm)Panglossian Wrote: By maximising rationality, I'm assuming you mean to always be as logical as possible. It seems to me that such an outlook would dull ones appreciation for artistic things like music due to its inherently visceral nature i.e. rarely invoking thought.

It may also cause an inability to suspend disbelief, and thus a lack of enjoyment for fiction ("that would never happen", "this is scientifically inaccurate", "why is she wearing makeup during a zombie apocalypse" etc.).

Also, while strict logicians and pragmatists are exceptionally suited to a lot of fields (programming, economics, law and avoiding harmful delusions to name a few), they tend to over-analyse or correct people in social situations.

...

Actually, having now listed a few possible drawbacks of total rationality, it seems evidently possible to identify and avoid these eventualities through the very same pragmatic mindset that led to them in the first place.  

Argh, my poor little brain can't process vicious circles.

Maybe it would be worth splitting the word rationalism into more specific definitions: logical rationalism - whereby only the path of the pragmatist is taken (sounds slightly sociopathic to me), and pensive rationalism - whereby one imagines the implications of the manner in which they approach life


Appreciating art is a non-rational endeavor. It is outside the purview of rationality. 

Therefore, even the most rational person has the ability to appreciate art without the need to insert a rational thought process. The arts utilize another part of the mind, that does not require rational thought.

When it comes to evaluating existential claims, the physical world around me, philosophy, science, etc, I try to remove all irrationality and evaluate purely on the evidence. 

When it comes to appreciating the arts, I suspend my rationality as much as possible, and appreciate it purely on its artistic merit.

Being super rational and appreciating art are not mutually exclusive.

Einstein played violin at a pretty high level. Asimov wrote great sci-fi. Benjamin Franklin played music and invented musical instruments. Brian May (guitarist with Queen) has a PhD in astronomy.

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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#17
RE: Is it rational to maximize rationality?
Penguin: I don't think I've actually read catcher in the rye! It was another one of my dumb jokes, I was going for a mashup of catch 27 and catcher in the rye. I clearly talk far too much crap Wink Or not enough!

Yeaaaaaaaaah... even if your purpose is to appreciate art, you are going to maximise the potential for doing so by being rational. For example, you have to get to where to art is. This requires a rational plan if it's to be done with efficiency. You need to plan the amount of time to spend looking at it, or else risk messing up your life in general and so scupper future chances to enjoy art as much.

So I'm not saying every moment must be spent being rational, but it must be the backbone of your important decision making or else you won't achieve what you want to achieve as well as you could.
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#18
RE: Is it rational to maximize rationality?
I believe that it is rational to be rational, HOWEVER..

What one person considers rational, another would consider insane. Most of us, consider it irrational to just believe in a god without evidence. A theist would argue that we are the ones being irrational, because we don’t believe in the invisible man in the sky, that they have never seen. They claim to see god in everything they look at. To them, that is rational, to us, that is irrational.

Although, when attempting to look at this objectively, I’d say, if most of the people on this planet answer this honestly, they mostly would all agree that it is rational to be rational. There would be disagreements on practically every subject one may bring up, whether something was rational or not on here, but most would defend what they believe with their own version of rationality.
Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' -Isaac Asimov-
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#19
RE: Is it rational to maximize rationality?
I fucking hate polls :c
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#20
RE: Is it rational to maximize rationality?
R(x) = rationality based on action x

We want x s.t. R'(x) = 0 and R''(x) < 0

Life is easy when you replace it with maths.
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Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
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