Can you be angry at "god" and simultaneously disbelieve its existence?

[Pyrrho]

I doubt you are going to find many defenders of ISIS here, but whatever evil they do, that does not excuse the thousands of cases of child abuse in the Catholic Church, or the coverup that the organization has done, over the course of many years.

You might want to stop supporting an evil organization, an international pedophile ring, before you start casting stones at others.

[abaris]

Just curious, I have noticed that when talking about the "horrible things" people of faith do, Islam is hardly ever brought up. Even though they are the worst in regards to doing bad things in the name of faith.

Same god, same legends, only different conclusions about the nature of certain protagonists.

Also, why are they the worst. They have their radicals the same way christianity has them. They majority of muslims just goes about their business as does the majority of christians. And there's only one difference between christian and muslim radicals: In most cases a thin layer of society prevents christian or jewish fanatics to act on their vile impulses. And sometimes that layer breaks and the results are as ugly. For references you just have to look at what the christian militias did in Lebanon back in the 80ies.

But the rulebook, as I said, features the same vengeful, genocidal Abrahamic god.

[Catholic_Lady]

Coming from a catholic, criticism of islam rich.  ISIS are amatuers and upstarts.  The Holy Church is the mold from which dicks like them are cast.  Hell, part of their grievance is down to your goddamned popes warmongering in the first place.  They're still sore about that, clearly.  Your church is leashed, but it hasn't always been and when it wasn't it did horrible shit - for centuries.  It isn't satisfied with containing itself now, obviously, as it continually finds itself breaking the law where it sees fit to do so.  You, as a catholic, have no high ground from which to cast stones, dearest.  

Most of the folks here come from christianized countries, so when they think of gods, they think of the christian gods.  We get the odd member from an islamic country, and they're predictably focused on allah.  That's all there really is to that.

I think my post to Laika was perfectly reasonable.

I like Laika. We have PMed and had good discussion. She/he is open and willing to talk about things honestly and without biases.

If everyone else wants to immediately accuse me of saying what I said because I'm "anti islam" or whatever, that's fine. I'm interested in having a productive discussion with Laika.

---

Just curious, I have noticed that when talking about the "horrible things" people of faith do, Islam is hardly ever brought up. Even though they are the worst in regards to doing bad things in the name of faith.

Same god, same legends, only different conclusions about the nature of certain protagonists.

Also, why are they the worst. They have their radicals the same way christianity has them. They majority of muslims just goes about their business as does the majority of christians. And there's only one difference between christian and muslim radicals: In most cases a thin layer of society prevents christian or jewish fanatics to act on their vile impulses. And sometimes that layer breaks and the results are as ugly. For references you just have to look at what the christian militias did in Lebanon back in the 80ies.

But the rulebook, as  I said, features the same vengeful, genocidal Abrahamic god.

Christian radicals may be nasty pieces of work, but they are not wreaking havoc by the hundreds of thousands in an entire section of the world by slaughtering anyone who does not agree with them.

Yes, Christians have done that in the past. But that was centuries ago and those people are no longer alive... whereas radical Islam has never stopped. I'm not excusing their behavior, it just seems weird to me that Isis/radical Islam hardly gets brought up.

[The Grand Nudger]

Radical islam never stopped?  Radical islam is relatively new...it just started....they've got alot of catching up to do if they want to stand on the podium next to the church.  Given your obvious predilection to excusing these sorts of behaviors in one group, I cannot -imagine- why you wouldn't extend that courtesy to the other.......?  How could you be so down on islam, being so quick to disregard what you accuse them of in another faiths context?  

Is it only an issue when muslims do it?  

(the thought process behind your posts in this matter are why I'm so critical of christianity, btw....makes for a great example)

[Catholic_Lady]

Radical islam never stopped?  Radical islam is relatively new...it just started....they've got alot of catching up to do if they want to stand on the podium next to the church.  Given your obvious predilection to excusing these sorts of behaviors in one group, I cannot -imagine- why you wouldn't extend that courtesy to the other.......?  How could you be so down on islam, being so quick to disregard what you accuse them of in another faiths context?  

Is it only an issue when muslims do it?  

(the thought process behind your posts in this matter are why I'm so critical of christianity, btw....makes for a great example)

If you look at the history of Islam, there has always been non stop blood shed. Non stop and still going strong today, in the 21st century. They even have a word for it - Jihad.

Btw, I have nothing against Muslims and one of my best friends is one. But if I was going to bash a particular religion for doing horrible things, the first one to come to mind would be Islam and the first thing to pop into my head would be Isis, because of everything I have already explained. So it just seems strange that you guys hardly bring any of that up, since you bash religion all the time. That's all I'm saying.

[Aroura]

I understand that fictional characters can generate real emotions, but no, I don't feel angry at God. For instance, I'm disgusted by (the late) King Jeoffry from Game of thrones, but I never felt angry AT him. The God of the bible is a worse monster than Jeoffry, but I don't feel angry AT him. I feel he's a pretty poorly written character, with a lot inconsistant behavioral traits, so I have a hard time feeling much toward him as a fictional character.

[abaris]

Yes, Christians have done that in the past. But that was centuries ago and those people are no longer alive... whereas radical Islam has never stopped. I'm not excusing their behavior, it just seems weird to me that Isis/radical Islam hardly gets brought up.

The 80ies aren't centuries ago.

Also, you might have a look at the countries where radical Islam runs rampant. They're failed states, but that's not the entirety of the Islamic world. It's pretty diverse actually, with Turkey still being a mostly functioning secular democracy and Bosnia being a pretty recent addition. Most of the islamic countries never make the news because nothing newsworthy is happening there.

Then I would like to know where you're getting the hundreds of thousands from. There are serious estimates about the number of people killed in the conflict with ISIS. They range somewhere between 10- and 20.000. Included in this number are casualties as well as outright murders. Compare that to the numbers the website Iraq body count provides, which covers Iraqi deaths since the invasion of 2003. The total has now reached 219.000. Radical Islam is also partly a Western creation. The roots of the Taliban as well as Al Quaeda lie in Afghanistan when bearded men attacking the Russians were still presented as heroes, armed and trained by Western forces.

Then look at Palestine, which is at the root of Islamic terrorism. Only it wasn't islamic until the late 80ies, it was left leaning and secular, in league with leftist terrorist groups rather than with religious radicals. It started, and still is, a territorial conflict, now with religious connotations that were almost totally absent till the first Intifada of 1987.

[Exian]

I think we bash Islam a fair amount, but you happen to be Catholic, so not only would you notice more Christian bashing, but you probably draw more of it in when you're around. Just how the conversations go. Ask Mystic Knight.

[The Grand Nudger]

-Of course- you'd bash islam...it's not like you'd feel comfortable bashing christianity, now is it?  If you were more imaginative you'd find a way to call buddhists and baha'ists out on their bullshit, two favorites of mine.  Muslims receive the rough treatment of islam with regularity on these boards, in a measure entirely proportionate to the contributions of islam -to- these boards.  

All you're saying, martyr, is that christianity is getting the shorter end of the stick, and yall have been claiming that for ages...but so what if it were? Catholicism, for example, -deserves- the stick it's earned. It worked hard for it. Sure, others might be working to achieve a similar infamy - they'll get much the same when they've achieved it, I'm sure. If islams contribution to the world ends up mirroring catholicisms contribution to the world then I'd expect it find it choking on it's own egregious weight, same as the church is experiencing now.

You seem to think that my comments regarding your own god and religion aren't transferable to islam and it's god. They are. If I don't like something about your religion...you're most likely going to be able to find it;s analog in another religion...and I won;t like that for the same reasons. So, if it helps.....anytime I criticise catholicism, just imagine that I'm criticizing islam. Because I am.

[abaris]

If you look at the history of Islam, there has always been non stop blood shed. Non stop and still going strong today, in the 21st century. They even have a word for it - Jihad.

Seriously, you're looking in the wrong direction. A real history book might make a better starting point.

Look up some real history of Islamic states and countries dating back at least a thousand years and you will find that they weren't any more violent than the christians were at the same time. They had their territorial conflicts amongst each others and they had their conflicts with christian dominions. Especially against the Crusader states and Byzanz, which ultimately had nothing to do with Islam, but with a newly arriving nomadic people in Eastern Anatolia in the wake of the East Roman Empire crumbling.

And yes, christians have a word for it too - Crusade. Last and stupidly used by GW Bush and some other morons since then.