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(July 20, 2015 at 1:18 pm)Salacious B. Crumb Wrote: Truth or Love?
I feel I could go through life, content, without experiencing love. Of course, I’d need some friendships or acquaintances, but I don’t feel I’d need love. Love, of course, is a great thing, but it can make your life miserable, as well. I’d rather have truth, than someone pretending to love me for whatever reason. I’d rather have someone be brutally honest with me, as often as possible, as opposed to someone talking about me behind my back. I’d want to hear feedback how I could be a better person, rather than false love, like.. when people tell you that you’re amazing, but you really aren’t. They want you to hear that, in order to use you in some way. It happens too often.
I think it’s a problem, when people don’t hear the truth enough. Everyone is worried about hurting everyone else’s feelings or being politically correct, instead of trying to point out each other’s mistakes. I don’t think life should revolve around that, but when someone is doing something wrong over and over again to someone, or to multiple people, they need to hear it. Some people are narcissistic, but many people are decent, and will want to change to be a better person, so they can get along with whomever, better than before. Being kind and truthful to one another, plus common interests, and other positive personality traits, can lead to love. I don’t think that you have love without truth, not in my definition anyway.
Truth or Love.. What’s more important, and why? Force yourself to think about it, and don’t say both are equally important.
The way you are describing things, it seems to me you are comparing truth with a false love, or in other words, not with love at all. Who wouldn't rather have truth than a false, pretend love?
If you now tell me, but wait, I stated "I don’t think that you have love without truth, not in my definition anyway", you also stated, "Truth or Love.. What’s more important, and why? Force yourself to think about it, and don’t say both are equally important."
You seem to be setting things up so that we are supposed to choose between truth and love, but cannot choose both, and love requires truth. In other words, you are insisting that we do not choose love, because choosing love is choosing both.
I can see what you’re saying there, and you make a valid point, but I also said that I’m content going through life having friends, but not necessarily needing love (or unconditional love or ‘true love’… it can be more of a bonus). I feel, I could make it with a job to support myself, have some friends that are respectful enough to give me the truth, and just enjoy nature, and be at peace. I do well alone, most of the time, and the people that I do encounter, I’d like to be more honest with me, than show me an unconditional love. There are plenty of people out there, and many can show me kindness, but, first, I’d rather have truth from them.
I may have delved too much into an example of false love, thanks for being truthful with me.
Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'-Isaac Asimov-
What is the nature of "mattering to you the most"? Is that about what's true or about your feelings and emotions? Is what matters to you finally just one more thing to be figured out? If so, based on what .. and why should you care?
(July 21, 2015 at 1:22 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: What is the nature of "mattering to you the most"? Is that about what's true or about your feelings and emotions?
My core beliefs, based on my experiences and emotions, that are subject to change as time progresses.
Quote:Is what matters to you finally just one more thing to be figured out? If so, based on what .. and why should you care?
It may be. I don’t care too much about my future beliefs, but in a truth vs love scenario, at this moment in time, I’d say truth.
Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'-Isaac Asimov-
Yeah I would too. But then I would include the truth about what I love in that statement. And I recognize that isn't an arbitrary decision for me to make but a truth about myself I have to face.
(July 21, 2015 at 1:19 pm)Salacious B. Crumb Wrote:
(July 21, 2015 at 1:04 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: The way you are describing things, it seems to me you are comparing truth with a false love, or in other words, not with love at all. Who wouldn't rather have truth than a false, pretend love?
If you now tell me, but wait, I stated "I don’t think that you have love without truth, not in my definition anyway", you also stated, "Truth or Love.. What’s more important, and why? Force yourself to think about it, and don’t say both are equally important."
You seem to be setting things up so that we are supposed to choose between truth and love, but cannot choose both, and love requires truth. In other words, you are insisting that we do not choose love, because choosing love is choosing both.
I can see what you’re saying there, and you make a valid point, but I also said that I’m content going through life having friends, but not necessarily needing love (or unconditional love or ‘true love’… it can be more of a bonus). I feel, I could make it with a job to support myself, have some friends that are respectful enough to give me the truth, and just enjoy nature, and be at peace. I do well alone, most of the time, and the people that I do encounter, I’d like to be more honest with me, than show me an unconditional love. There are plenty of people out there, and many can show me kindness, but, first, I’d rather have truth from them.
I may have delved too much into an example of false love, thanks for being truthful with me.
I don't believe in "unconditional" love. Or, at least, I do not think that would be a good thing. If I were to suddenly have a personality change, and started beating my wife, I hope she would leave me. I think she would, eventually, though I would first need to burn through 20+ years of goodwill. But I don't think that would take long if we are talking about brutal beatings, and I certainly hope it would not take long.
I think if you want love, and want marriage or something like it, the best way to go about it is to start out as friends. My wife and I were the best of friends before we added romance to the mix. If you are curious about the details, I have posted about this before:
One of the reasons why I had not thought of her as a potential romantic partner earlier is due to the difference in our ages. She was much younger (at the time; now the difference in our ages seems trivial). Lest you get the wrong idea, she was in her 20's, not a child.
As for honesty, I like gentle honesty, and dislike both white lies and brutal honesty. I have a friend who is brutally honest, and though I like her very much, I would find living with her wearing.
To give a stylized example to distinguish between white lies, gentle truth, and brutal truth:
White lie: That shirt looks fine with those trousers.
Gentle truth: I don't care for that shirt with those trousers; please wear a different combination.
Brutal truth: Are you fucking insane? That shirt with those trousers? That is the ugliest combination I have ever seen! What kind of dumb fuck are you? Have you no sense of taste at all?
If I get to choose, I will take gentle truth every time. And that is what I get from my wife, and what I give her as well.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
(July 21, 2015 at 2:09 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: As for honesty, I like gentle honesty, and dislike both white lies and brutal honesty. I have a friend who is brutally honest, and though I like her very much, I would find living with her wearing.
To give a stylized example to distinguish between white lies, gentle truth, and brutal truth:
White lie: That shirt looks fine with those trousers.
Gentle truth: I don't care for that shirt with those trousers; please wear a different combination.
Brutal truth: Are you fucking insane? That shirt with those trousers? That is the ugliest combination I have ever seen! What kind of dumb fuck are you? Have you no sense of taste at all?
If I get to choose, I will take gentle truth every time. And that is what I get from my wife, and what I give her as well.
lol. I guess you call brutal truth, what I call, being sort of an asshole, but I see what you mean. I’d say brutal truth, is just being as truthful as you can.
Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'-Isaac Asimov-
(July 21, 2015 at 2:55 pm)Salacious B. Crumb Wrote:
(July 21, 2015 at 2:09 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: As for honesty, I like gentle honesty, and dislike both white lies and brutal honesty. I have a friend who is brutally honest, and though I like her very much, I would find living with her wearing.
To give a stylized example to distinguish between white lies, gentle truth, and brutal truth:
White lie: That shirt looks fine with those trousers.
Gentle truth: I don't care for that shirt with those trousers; please wear a different combination.
Brutal truth: Are you fucking insane? That shirt with those trousers? That is the ugliest combination I have ever seen! What kind of dumb fuck are you? Have you no sense of taste at all?
If I get to choose, I will take gentle truth every time. And that is what I get from my wife, and what I give her as well.
lol. I guess you call brutal truth, what I call, being sort of an asshole, but I see what you mean. I’d say brutal truth, is just being as truthful as you can.
I don't want that. If my wife sincerely feels that the choice is the ugliest combination she has ever seen, and thinks that someone who would suggest such a combination must have no sense of taste at all, I don't want to hear it. I want her to tell me she does not care for it, and to ask me to wear something else. If I am resistant to what she says, then I want her to gently increase her opposition. I don't want brutal honesty all the time. But, I do want honesty all the time. I don't want a white lie.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
(July 21, 2015 at 2:55 pm)Salacious B. Crumb Wrote: lol. I guess you call brutal truth, what I call, being sort of an asshole, but I see what you mean. I’d say brutal truth, is just being as truthful as you can.
I don't want that. If my wife sincerely feels that the choice is the ugliest combination she has ever seen, and thinks that someone who would suggest such a combination must have no sense of taste at all, I don't want to hear it. I want her to tell me she does not care for it, and to ask me to wear something else. If I am resistant to what she says, then I want her to gently increase her opposition. I don't want brutal honesty all the time. But, I do want honesty all the time. I don't want a white lie.
Alright, I'm with ya on that. You like truthfulness, with a side of gentle honesty when necessary.
Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'-Isaac Asimov-
